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Well, that is not what the passage talks about. It talks about how people should not judge each other, because in the end God will JUDGE all. Just like in court of law, you stand when you are told to stand, and you sit when told to sit. At God's judgement, you kneel.
Finn, do you know why the Koine Greek language was developed or by whom it was developed?
It was by the command of Alexander the great the the Attic-Ionic Greek language become the legal language(of the government) of his empire, and also the military language and more fully developed into Koine. The purpose was to have a language that was so specific as to leave little room for doubt as to the meaning of its words, while being a general tongue more easily spoken and learned by foreign nationalities.
The purpose for the further development of the attic-ionic Greek into Koine was so that all the nations which came under the control of his empire would not be able to find loopholes in the treatise that were signed, and so that the many various nationalities which made up his army would be able to fully understand commands without confusion regardless of the native languages spoken by them.
The Koine Greek is very particular in this regard. Many words not only imply meanings other than the basic meaning which is communicated by said words, but literally denote such peripheral meanings. So that one word could express what in other languages requires many words.
The Koine Greek word "exomologeō" is one of these words. The word means basically to confess or profess or agree willingly, but it denotes much more than that as well. It literally and specifically denotes celebration and Joy and the giving of thanks. It cannot by any means imply agreeing against ones will, or confessing against ones will, nor can it imply or does it in any way denote fear or any negative emotion. In no way could this word be used to refer to a confession given by someone under duress.
Here is the definition of the word itself.
1) to confess 2) to profess a)acknowledge openly and joyfully b) to one's honour: to celebrate, give praise to c) to profess that one will do something, to promise, agree, engage
The word "exomologeō" can also be translated as giving thanks, and in fact is twice in the scripture ...
Mat 11:25
At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank(exomologeō) thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
And again ...
Luk 10:21
In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight.
Again, in no way can the word "exomologeō" mean to confess under duress or by force or while afraid or while angry ... etc.
Though you would like to believe and do erroneously teach that Phl 2:11 speaks of people who confess Christ is lord because they are forced to all the while knowing they are about to be tormented for ever, it is simply impossible for this verse to mean that because of the use of the word "exomologeō".
Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 06-08-2010 at 03:54 PM..
it's telling people not to judge each other, and emphasizing that all will be judged. However, the verses above sound pretty hopeful to me.
NO WAY!!!! Could that be the reason why I have repeated three times that the passage is about judging. Don't judge each other because God will judge everyone in the end. How many times do I have to repeat it?
When I said it you had already twisted them. Sorry.
I did not twist your words, I pointed out that I disagreed with the interpretation you believed in an attempt to show you where I was coming from, rather than just argue. I was trying to avoid the downhill motion that you have gone all by yourself on the matter.
What I said stands as just points of what I believe, not twisting or accusing you of anything. Wherever you land on your down hill trek is your business, I am not there with ya.
Phl 2:11 and Rom 14:11 are verses where Paul is reiterating the old testament.
These verse are directly linked to the verse listed below ...
Psa 22:27
All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the LORD: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.
Psa 66:4
All the earth shall worship thee, and shall sing unto thee; they shall sing to thy name. Selah.
Psa 67:4
O let the nations be glad and sing for joy: for thou shalt judge the people righteously, and govern the nations upon earth. Selah.
Psa 68:32
Sing unto God, ye kingdoms of the earth; O sing praises unto the Lord; Selah:
Psa 98:4
Make a joyful noise unto the LORD, all the earth: make a loud noise, and rejoice, and sing praise.
Isa 26:19
Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.
Isa 35:10
nd the ransomed of the LORD shall return, and come to Zion with songs and everlasting joy upon their heads: they shall obtain joy and gladness, and sorrow and sighing shall flee away.
Isa 42:10
Sing unto the LORD a new song, and his praise from the end of the earth, ye that go down to the sea, and all that is therein; the isles, and the inhabitants thereof.
Isa 49:13
Sing, O heavens; and be joyful, O earth; and break forth into singing, O mountains: for the LORD hath comforted his people, and will have mercy upon his afflicted.
So all the ends of the earth, and all the kindred of the nations shall turn unto the lord and confess Christ to the glory of the father, and shall worship before him and celebrate his righteous judgments.
If most of humanity were being judged to everlasting torment, why on earth would all the kindred of the nations be singing his name and worshiping him with Joy?
Because you believe God will force them to right? Do you really believe he will not only make the say uncle before he torments them for ever, but he will also make them joyously worship him and sin his name?
I did not twist your words, I pointed out that I disagreed with the interpretation you believed in an attempt to show you where I was coming from, rather than just argue. I was trying to avoid the downhill motion that you have gone all by yourself on the matter.
What I said stands as just points of what I believe, not twisting or accusing you of anything. Wherever you land on your down hill trek is your business, I am not there with ya.
This is what you said:
Quote:
There is no passage in Romans that says "There is hope as long as you are breathing.
If you interpret it to say that, that is your business, but I have no reason to adopt it
How could anyone possibly think I was trying to say that Romans 14 said "there is hope as long as you are breathing" when I had SPECIFICALLY and REPEATEDLY explained to you that the passage talked about judging. You took the two sentences and merged them into one, and then claimed I was trying to say that the passage is about hope. That is intellectually dishonest. Period. Anyone can see that I had written two sentences separated by a blank line meaning they were two separate comments. You are being dishonest with your comments, and I knew it would only get worse, which is why I said "time out", but no, you couldn't let it go.
QUIT TWISTING MY WORDS!!!!
"There is hope as long as you are breathing" was in reference to Paul's comment (which I mentioned earlier) about those dead who "were without hope", those people who had died as unbelievers.
It is said that Faith is a requirement for salvation... standing in front of Jesus/God would negate the need for faith as you cannot deny faith in something right in front of you...
It is said that Belief is a requirement for salvation.... standing in front of Jesus/God would negate the need for belief as you cannot deny belief in something right in front of you...
Therefore, if everyone (great and small, good and bad, believer and unbeliever) will stand before God then everyone will have to believe in what they are standing in front of.... Wouldn't you say?
So what is the purpose of standing in front of God and still being thrown in hell for eternity? Clearly one cannot deny that which is right in front of them!
Either way you look at it there is no reason why God would continue to punish people after their flesh is gone... what would be the purpose?
Exactly! The same goes for 'hope'.
Rom 8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
Rom 8:25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
Finn, do you know why the Koine Greek language was developed or by whom it was developed?
It was by the command of Alexander the great the the Attic-Ionic Greek language become the legal language(of the government) of his empire, and also the military language and more fully developed into Koine. The purpose was to have a language that was so specific as to leave little room for doubt as to the meaning of its words, while being a general tongue more easily spoken and learned by foreign nationalities.
The purpose for the further development of the attic-ionic Greek into Koine was so that all the nations which came under the control of his empire would not be able to find loopholes in the treatise that were signed, and so that the many various nationalities which made up his army would be able to fully understand commands without confusion regardless of the native languages spoken by them.
The Koine Greek is very particular in this regard. Many words not only imply meanings other than the basic meaning which is communicated by said words, but literally denote such peripheral meanings. So that one word could express what in other languages requires many words.
The Koine Greek word "exomologeō" is one of these words. The word means basically to confess or profess or agree willingly, but it denotes much more than that as well. It literally and specifically denotes celebration and Joy and the giving of thanks. It cannot by any means imply agreeing against ones will, or confessing against ones will, nor can it imply or does it in any way denote fear or any negative emotion. In no way could this word be used to refer to a confession given by someone under duress.
Here is the definition of the word itself.
1) to confess 2) to profess a)acknowledge openly and joyfully b) to one's honour: to celebrate, give praise to c) to profess that one will do something, to promise, agree, engage
The word "exomologeō" can also be translated as giving thanks, and in fact is twice in the scripture ...
Mat 11:25
At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank(exomologeō) thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
And again ...
Luk 10:21
In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight.
Again, in no way can the word "exomologeō" mean to confess under duress or by force or while afraid or while angry ... etc.
Though you would like to believe and do erroneously teach that Phl 2:11 speaks of people who confess Christ is lord because they are forced to all the while knowing they are about to be tormented for ever, it is simply impossible for this verse to mean that because of the use of the word "exomologeō".
You know, we can "talk" until it's 3:00 in the morning and I bet you wouldn't change you're stance, nor me, mines. But that's okay, too!
And no, no lifeguard profession for me. I enjoy being a nurse. God has placed me exactly where He wants me to be. And that's in a position to try and reach them BEFORE they take their LAST BREATH! Thank you Lord Jesus!!
Blessing to you.
Betsey....you say "God has placed me exactly where He wants me to be." This is TRUE, but wouldnt you think that, with a Soveriegn God, that EVERYBODY is "exactly where He wants them to be"?
I had read Bright Hope's words and I understand what she is saying about "knowing" Him. When Christ is 'in' us we do the things of Him. IMO, 'acceptance' comes BY knowing Him not by WANTING TO KNOW Him.
Quote:
I understand PERFECTLY what's been said, said that......already! (Emphasis added) And my RESPONSE remains the same: YOU must believe and accept Jesus as YOUR LORD AND SAVIOR!!
This theology of "IF man believes and accepts FIRST" then he is saved, takes much credit from God. Christ died "while we were YET sinners and enemies" BEFORE anyone 'accepted' Him. So really, this theology puts Man's acceptance more important then Christ's own death. As you say, this is the "thing" that.....
Quote:
.....cheapens His having to die in the first place! What was the purpose of His dying?
Indeed, what was the purpose of Him dying for "sinners and enemies" BEFORE they 'accept' Him then??
Quote:
It's all in the Bible! Anything you want know! Would you believe me if I told you? So this is why I say: I BELIEVE THE BIBLE! I believe that TODAY is the day of salvation!
Correct....it IS all in the Bible. But do you "BELIEVE THE BIBLE!" as you say. You obviously dont believe this verse, because you believe that YOU chose/accepted Him. Your own Lord's words tell you that you do not....
Joh 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, .....
Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
For a man to "think" he is even ABLE to chose/accept Jesus without God even giving him that ability in the first place, is 'high thinking' and it will be burned out of him. HE makes honourable vessel as well as the dishonourable one. We do not save ourselves Betsey. It is as simple as that. He has control over all things even our 'will'. Please go to this thread and comment (here or there) on all of the scriptures posted. Your God is VERY STRONG Betsey. Stronger then you know. Don't make Him WEAKER then your own supposed "freewill".
What Bright Hope has stated gives ALL glory to God and take none for herself, which is as it should be. For she knows that just the "knowledge" of her Saviour causes her to DO righteousness BY HIM. I would trust that she would not rob God of Glory by stating SHE DID IT HERSELF.
Bright Hope....if I am speaking out of line please let me know.
How could anyone possibly think I was trying to say that Romans 14 said "there is hope as long as you are breathing" when I had SPECIFICALLY and REPEATEDLY explained to you that the passage talked about judging. You took the two sentences and merged them into one, and then claimed I was trying to say that the passage is about hope. That is intellectually dishonest. Period. Anyone can see that I had written two sentences separated by a blank line meaning they were two separate comments. You are being dishonest with your comments, and I knew it would only get worse, which is why I said "time out", but no, you couldn't let it go.
QUIT TWISTING MY WORDS!!!!
"There is hope as long as you are breathing" was in reference to Paul's comment (which I mentioned earlier) about those dead who "were without hope", those people who had died as unbelievers.
You making this out to be much more than it needs to be.
There is no passage in the entire bible that states that "there is hope as long as your breathing" That should cover it.
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However, the verses above sound pretty hopeful to me. 
