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IMO :- God knows the intent of the heart - you seemed to be saying all unbelievers will be given few stripes and that I do not agree with. Judgment is about reaping what you have sowed - both the believer and the unbeliever - the believer who is called, chosen, faithful and overcomes the mark of the beast and is in the first resurrection is not hurt of the second death --- they have nothing left to be judged for.
We are told that judgement starts at the house of God - lots of people think that judgment is bypassed for those in the house of God.
I am not saying that the most heinous Criminals are lightly treated ... But in general just because someone is not a believer in Christ does not make them earthly or even spiritually criminals.
The greater the sin the longer the purification process ... What i believe that Christ is saying is by comparison, those who sin against what they do know, that is to say Christians who know that they have been forgiven but who do not forgive others and condemn them for their sin(debt) will suffer greater judgment than the average non-Christian in the world.
I do not believe that believers go without judgment, for God chastises those whom he loves. But neither are we appointed unto wrath ... That is to say unless we condemn others by our actions or in our hearts and minds unto wrath ... As it is written what you mete out shall be measured back unto you again, and you will be judged in the manner that you judge others.
I am not saying that the most heinous Criminals are lightly treated ... But in general just because someone is not a believer in Christ does not make them earthly or even spiritually criminals.
The greater the sin the longer the purification process ... What i believe that Christ is saying is by comparison, those who sin against what they do know, that is to say Christians who know that they have been forgiven but who do not forgive others and condemn them for their sin(debt) will suffer greater judgment than the average non-Christian in the world.
I do not believe that believers go without judgment, for God chastises those whom he loves. But neither are we appointed unto wrath ... That is to say unless we condemn others by our actions or in our hearts and minds unto wrath ... As it is written what you mete out shall be measured back unto you again, and you will be judged in the manner that you judge others.
God bless ...
Yep -- I agree.
Where we have been shown mercy ...... we are to have the mind of Christ and show mercy.
I am not saying that the most heinous Criminals are lightly treated ... But in general just because someone is not a believer in Christ does not make them earthly or even spiritually criminals.
The greater the sin the longer the purification process ... What i believe that Christ is saying is by comparison, those who sin against what they do know, that is to say Christians who know that they have been forgiven but who do not forgive others and condemn them for their sin(debt) will suffer greater judgment than the average non-Christian in the world.
I do not believe that believers go without judgment, for God chastises those whom he loves. But neither are we appointed unto wrath ... That is to say unless we condemn others by our actions or in our hearts and minds unto wrath ... As it is written what you mete out shall be measured back unto you again, and you will be judged in the manner that you judge others.
Wait just a minute. Either I am misunderstanding you or else your reasoning is simply skewed. I have some specific questions relating to what you just said. If you will answer them, I would very much appreciate it.
1. Are you really saying that becoming a Christian makes it possible for someone to never ever sin again?
2. I'm assuming you have personally sinned since becoming a Christian. Why on earth would you have done so?
3. Do you believe that becoming a Christian is what gives a person free will and that before a person becomes a Christian, he has no free will?
I apologize if I'm way off base in how I understood you, as I always do make a point of trying not to put words into other people's mouths. But seriously, if I didn't misinterpret what you just said, I am speechless to think that anyone believes that way.
No it is quite clear what I have said. A Christian can still sin, but by the power of Christ they can turn away from that sin. They can rebuke the temptor by Christ. He is the strength of a Christian. You are in no way off base it is a logical question. This is what many fail to understand. We are not perfect because Christ died and rose again, we are perfect because we place ourselves under His perfection. Thus when we are faced with sin we can call on a power greater than that which is in us. The unbeliever has no claim to this.
A person has free will from the beginning, but what they choose to do with that determines what God chooses to do with the person. God puts the choice in ones hands. Those who imply that God created evil so that man can find love in effect make God the author of sin. God originated the Law and Order, but those placed under it can choose to accept or reject it. Thus God gives them over to their choice.
I am not saying that the most heinous Criminals are lightly treated ... But in general just because someone is not a believer in Christ does not make them earthly or even spiritually criminals.
The greater the sin the longer the purification process ... What i believe that Christ is saying is by comparison, those who sin against what they do know, that is to say Christians who know that they have been forgiven but who do not forgive others and condemn them for their sin(debt) will suffer greater judgment than the average non-Christian in the world.
I do not believe that believers go without judgment, for God chastises those whom he loves. But neither are we appointed unto wrath ... That is to say unless we condemn others by our actions or in our hearts and minds unto wrath ... As it is written what you mete out shall be measured back unto you again, and you will be judged in the manner that you judge others.
God bless ...
There is nothing that supports this by scripture and thus you resort to hypotheticals. Which is what most of your belief system places upon you, that which is all hypothetical and not proven by scripture. No where does a Christian face judgement because a Christian is in Christ. How sad a statement you have made here and so great a lack of understanding.
There is nothing that supports this by scripture and thus you resort to hypotheticals. Which is what most of your belief system places upon you, that which is all hypothetical and not proven by scripture. No where does a Christian face judgement because a Christian is in Christ. How sad a statement you have made here and so great a lack of understanding.
In reply to a post by Meerkat I wrote ...
Quote:
I am not saying that the most heinous Criminals are lightly treated ... But in general just because someone is not a believer in Christ does not make them earthly or even spiritually criminals.
The greater the sin the longer the purification process ... What i believe that Christ is saying is by comparison, those who sin against what they do know, that is to say Christians who know that they have been forgiven but who do not forgive others and condemn them for their sin(debt) will suffer greater judgment than the average non-Christian in the world.
I do not believe that believers go without judgment, for God chastises those whom he loves. But neither are we appointed unto wrath ... That is to say unless we condemn others by our actions or in our hearts and minds unto wrath ... As it is written what you mete out shall be measured back unto you again, and you will be judged in the manner that you judge others.
The scriptures which speak of these things are Mat 18:23-35 and Luk 12:42-48 (Parable of the wicked servant who does not forgive the debts of his fellow men) and especially ...
Luk 12:46-48
the master of that servant(believer) will come on a day when he is not looking for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. And that servant(believer) who knew his master’s will, and did not prepare himself or do according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he(no mention of being a servant - the unbeliever) who did not know, yet committed things deserving of stripes, shall be beaten with few. For everyone to whom much is given, from him much will be required; and to whom much has been committed, of him they will ask the more.
And again ...
1Pe 4:17
For the time is come(not in the original Greek) that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
And yet again ...
Rev 3:19
As many as I love, I rebuke(elegchō - convict) and chasten(paideuō - to chasten by the affliction of evils and calamities): be zealous therefore, and repent.
1Cr 3:13
Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1Cr 3:15
If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
The scriptures which speak of these things are Mat 18:23-35 and Luk 12:42-48 (Parable of the wicked servant who does not forgive the debts of his fellow men) and especially ...
Luk 12:46-48
the master of that servant(believer) will come on a day when he is not looking for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. And that servant(believer) who knew his master’s will, and did not prepare himself or do according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he(no mention of being a servant - the unbeliever) who did not know, yet committed things deserving of stripes, shall be beaten with few. For everyone to whom much is given, from him much will be required; and to whom much has been committed, of him they will ask the more.
And again ...
1Pe 4:17
For the time is come(not in the original Greek) that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
And yet again ...
Rev 3:19
As many as I love, I rebuke(elegchō - convict) and chasten(paideuō - to chasten by the affliction of evils and calamities): be zealous therefore, and repent.
1Cr 3:13
Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1Cr 3:15
If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
Scripture to back up everything that i said ...
It backs up everything you believe and clearly does not support anything that scripture says. As always you post snippits to your beliefs taken away from the completeness and whole of scripture.
It is apparent as I am the originator of this post you can not even grasp the basic concepts I presented, but lead it into your belief system. Again as I have pointed out in 40 years you still can not grasp the basic concept. Thus you resort outside of the thread to preach what you believe, but again fail to understand the very Christian post I made.
As usual you claim scripture, but do not understand it.
It backs up everything you believe and clearly does not support anything that scripture says. As always you post snippits to your beliefs taken away from the completeness and whole of scripture.
It is apparent as I am the originator of this post you can not even grasp the basic concepts I presented, but lead it into your belief system. Again as I have pointed out in 40 years you still can not grasp the basic concept. Thus you resort outside of the thread to preach what you believe, but again fail to understand the very Christian post I made.
As usual you claim scripture, but do not understand it.
Or, just maybe, you are the one who does not understand it. Has that thought ever occurred to you?
It backs up everything you believe and clearly does not support anything that scripture says. As always you post snippits to your beliefs taken away from the completeness and whole of scripture.
It is apparent as I am the originator of this post you can not even grasp the basic concepts I presented, but lead it into your belief system. Again as I have pointed out in 40 years you still can not grasp the basic concept. Thus you resort outside of the thread to preach what you believe, but again fail to understand the very Christian post I made.
As usual you claim scripture, but do not understand it.
If you do NOT understand God . . . you cannot understand Scripture. You do NOT understand our loving God, period. Your acceptance of heinous and evil beliefs about Him is proof positive that you do NOT know Him . . . and have no idea what the Good News is nor what scripture "written in ink" is for.
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