Having Once Accepted Christ as Savior, You Cannot Lose Your Salvation (Christian, Lord)
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So When the scriptures say Every knee shall bow andd Every tongue confess will confess i hope you do not think God is forcing them to do so
Philippians 2 ; 9
Of course not.
Quote:
So if He saves everybody we are puppets ? This statement proves that you really do not believe that God is in control , you really believes He saves some and not others.
It's as if God is in a boat and we are in the water. God shows us where he is and tells us to swim to him and he will save us. He does not go around picking and choosing who he will save. If we don't want to get in the boat, he will not force us. The ones who refuse will be able to swim, thinking they will be ok. The boat is there, right in front of them their whole lives, but the ones who refuse will wish they had gotten in the boat in the end.
Quote:
God leads believers to himself what a joke . God leads sinners to Himself .
Well look at that. I made a slight mistake with my words. If you were listening to the Holy Spirit, you might have caught that one.
(**jorgy goes to the store as he wonders if there is a sense of humor on this forum**)
Quote:
This is why He is God , this is why He's wonderful.
It's as if God is in a boat and we are in the water. God shows us where he is and tells us to swim to him and he will save us. He does not go around picking and choosing who he will save. If we don't want to get in the boat, he will not force us. The ones who refuse will be able to swim, thinking they will be ok. The boat is there, right in front of them their whole lives, but the ones who refuse will wish they had gotten in the boat in the end.
Well look at that. I made a slight mistake with my words. If you were listening to the Holy Spirit, you might have caught that one.
(**jorgy goes to the store as he wonders if there is a sense of humor on this forum**)
Yes he is.
When a ship is going down i hope those who come to rescue the helpless and pwerless to save themselves will do everything in their power to sav us.
Romans 5 verse 6
6You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. 7Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die. 8But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
Goodnight jorgy ,by the way i love humor and sarcasm.
If you think there is no “ongoing action” for the condemnation, that would have to apply to the “will be saved” too.
I’m not really debating, just showing people who are just reading this what I believe to be the truth.
Here is where I get my information. You are more than welcome to post where you get your information for the readers.
Mar 16:16 The one believing and being baptized will be saved. And the one not believing will be condemned.
And remember people, those are the words of Jesus himself.
Believeth - Strong’s
G4100
πιστεύω
pisteuō
pist-yoo'-o
From G4102; to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), that is, credit; by implication to entrust (especially one’s spiritual well being to Christ): - believe (-r), commit (to trust), put in trust with.
Believeth - Thayer’s definition
G4100
πιστεύω
pisteuō
Thayer Definition:
1) to think to be true, to be persuaded of, to credit, place confidence in
1a) of the thing believed
1a1) to credit, have confidence
1b) in a moral or religious reference
1b1) used in the NT of the conviction and trust to which a man is impelled by a certain inner and higher prerogative and law of soul
1b2) to trust in Jesus or God as able to aid either in obtaining or in doing something: saving faith
2) to entrust a thing to one, i.e. his fidelity
2a) to be intrusted with a thing
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G4102
Citing in TDNT: 6:174, 849
Never mind.. apparently you can't understand the difference between past, perfect, present, and future tense...
Goodnight jorgy ,by the way i love humor and sarcasm.
Outstanding!!!
(I‘m back)
I was once told that sarcasm was a sin and I would go to hell if I kept doing it.
I still believe unbelievers go to hell, but a quick note on the original topic... I believe a saved Christian can loose his salvation, but, (and it's a big but), it is very, very difficult to do and does not happen often. Very, very infrequently, would be my guess.
But with what we disagree on, I don’t think it is as big of an issue as some issues could be. I believe God is watching us wondering if we are going to learn anything about “who he is.”
There is no security in what God does, but there is a lot of security in “who he is”
Don’t ask, that is something that I don’t think I am able to explain yet, but it makes sense in my heart. I’m sure you understand that.
Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
But Jesus did not speak English. He used the word aionion not the word "everlasting". So what you are really saying is "I trust KJV and Strongs, but not YLT translation of aionion"
The doctrine of ET rests entirely on the translation of aionion and owlam as "everlasting". Yet the OT contains examples of owlam and aionion (LXX) consequences of sin that do not last forever. Therefore scripture (as opposed to Strongs, Young, or KJV) shows that aionion consequences are not "everlasting" consequences.
For example. In the LXX the "everlasting contempt" of Daniel 12:2 is the exact same two Greek words as "shame of thy youth" in Isaiah 54:4 which shame the context shows is tempoarary.
Jesus said that unbelievers and hypocrites will recieve many stripes in judgment. And those who knew less will receive few stripes. This is not compatible with everlasting punsihment.
It's an interesting concept, but I'm not sure it's scriptural. God is said to control what happens to man without man's say or will. For example:
How is it that anyone is born into this world? By man's will, or God's will?
When Jesus raised Lazarus from the grave, was that by Lazarus' free will, or God's?
When the Holy Spirit regenerates the soul, is it by the free will of man, or of God?
Joh 1:13 who--not of blood nor of a will of flesh, nor of a will of man but--of God were begotten.
In the resurrection, will man be resurrected by the free will of man, or by God?
Even in what man does, or proposes to do, by his own desires and will, is actually Jehovah's will being accomplished:
Pro 16:9 The heart of man deviseth his way, And Jehovah establisheth his step.
Pro 19:21 Many are the purposes in a man's heart, And the counsel of Jehovah it standeth.
Pro 20:24 From Jehovah are the steps of a man, And man--how understandeth he his way?
Pro 21:1 Rivulets of waters is the heart of a king in the hand of Jehovah, Wherever He pleaseth He inclineth it.
That reminds me of this one.
Rom 7:14 for we have known that the law is spiritual, and I am fleshly, sold by the sin;
Rom 7:15 for that which I work, I do not acknowledge; for not what I will, this I practise, but what I hate, this I do.
Rom 7:16 And if what I do not will, this I do, I consent to the law that it is good,
Rom 7:17 and now it is no longer I that work it, but the sin dwelling in me,
Rom 7:18 for I have known that there doth not dwell in me, that is, in my flesh, good: for to will is present with me, and to work that which is right I do not find,
Rom 7:19 for the good that I will, I do not; but the evil that I do not will, this I practise.
Rom 7:20 And if what I do not will, this I do, it is no longer I that work it, but the sin that is dwelling in me.
Rom 7:21 I find, then, the law, that when I desire to do what is right, with me the evil is present,
Rom 7:22 for I delight in the law of God according to the inward man,
Rom 7:23 and I behold another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of the sin that is in my members.
Rom 7:24 A wretched man I am ! who shall deliver me out of the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God--through Jesus Christ our Lord; so then, I myself indeed with the mind do serve the law of God, and with the flesh, the law of sin.
But Jesus did not speak English. He used the word aionion not the word "everlasting". So what you are really saying is "I trust KJV and Strongs, but not YLT translation of aionion"
The doctrine of ET rests entirely on the translation of aionion and owlam as "everlasting". Yet the OT contains examples of owlam and aionion (LXX) consequences of sin that do not last forever. Therefore scripture (as opposed to Strongs, Young, or KJV) shows that aionion consequences are not "everlasting" consequences.
For example. In the LXX the "everlasting contempt" of Daniel 12:2 is the exact same two Greek words as "shame of thy youth" in Isaiah 54:4 which shame the context shows is tempoarary.
Jesus said that unbelievers and hypocrites will recieve many stripes in judgment. And those who knew less will receive few stripes. This is not compatible with everlasting punsihment.
So when the KJV states it like this.
Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
And Strong’s defines the word everlasting as this.
G166
αἰώνιος
aiōnios
ahee-o'-nee-os
From G165; perpetual (also used of past time, or past and future as well): - eternal, for ever, everlasting, world (began).
And Thayer’s defines it as this.
G166
αἰώνιος
aiōnios
Thayer Definition:
1) without beginning and end, that which always has been and always will be
2) without beginning
3) without end, never to cease, everlasting
Part of Speech: adjective
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G165
Citing in TDNT: 1:208, 31
You’re saying they are wrong?
(honest question)
If that is wrong, where can I get the correct information?
Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
And Strong’s defines the word everlasting as this.
eternal, for ever, everlasting, world (began).
1) without beginning and end, that which always has been and always will be
2) without beginning
3) without end, never to cease, everlasting
You’re saying they are wrong?
(honest question)
If that is wrong, where can I get the correct information?
Well, does it really matter what I personally say or believe? Yes, I believe they are wrong.
According to Strongs and Thayers aionion and owlam mean something that lasts forever. Right?
Isaiah 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to [them that are] bound; 2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn; 3 To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified. 4 And they shall build the old wastes, they shall raise up the former desolations, and they shall repair the waste cities, the desolations of many generations.
The word translated "old" is aionion in the LXX and owlam in the Hebrew.
So according to Strongs and Thayers these wastes
a) have no beginning
b) have no end
c) have no beginning or end
d) never cease
e) are everlasting
Now you tell me if they are wrong.
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