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Can someone tell me how God, who is the God of all comfort , comforts a young mother through us that as just lost her precious baby, by saying "you know what this is God's doing , He is behind this , one day when you will understand the deeper things of God , the Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away".I reject that the God of ALL comfort is anything even close to this.
Jesus was NOT like us when it comes to knowledge of good and evil.
How come? Hint obedience
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His father was not human.
Neither is ours, His Father is OUR Father.
That the problem with looking at Adam as your father, it leads to disobedience sin and death.
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Can you honestly say that you could learn what the consequences of wrong choices are if you never made a wrong choice?
Did Jesus know the consequence? Did Adam know beforehand what the consequences were?
Yes on both accounts.
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How can you know that it is really GOOD to make the correct choice until you make the wrong one, or at the very least to see a sibling corrected for defying his parents?
Because our Father tells us what the consequence are for each choice. Obedience=life disobedience=death.
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I had two children and it is a human's nature to defy authority.
No children learn to defy authority not because it is human nature.
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They reach for something and you stop them and they will reach for it again. My daughter got her hands smacked over and over reaching for the Christmas tree ornaments by her father until her hands were red and finally collapsed into sobs.
Why did your husband smack her hands, was it not because she was being disobedient?
Did she not know what that the consequence of her disobedience was going to be a smack?
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It is our nature to want to touch, taste, explore the things around us. The scriptures don't describe Jesus' infancy, whether or not he ever tried to take a cookie when he was told not to. If not, then He had something within him that none of us was born with.
Yes human nature wants to explore the things around us and there is nothing sinful in this aspect, but when you are told to stop exploring and refuse to stop you become disobedient and suffer the consequences of your disobedience.
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Until Adam disobeyed God, could He know how GOOD it was to obey Him?
Sure, obedience is life.
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I don't see how.
God told us how
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As a human you can't empathize with someone in pain unless you felt pain. You can't sympathize with someone who loses a loved one until you experience the loss of someone close to you, at least a pet To sympathize, you must at least have SOME idea of what it feels like to experience the bad. Jesus was ONE with the Father and so His wisdom and knowledge was with Him, though He did have to experience physical pain as well as temptation. But you take a baby, somehow make it impossible for him to feel physical pain, hunger, never experience want or need and see what he grows into. A selfish spoiled brat.
He will grow into a son of God. Do you not believe God will supply all our needs? Does that make us spoiled brats.
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But as we are mortal, we could hardly go a week without experiencing hunger, thirst, or some physical discomfort. Who doesn't fall down and experience bruises when learning to walk?
There is nothing sinful or evil in our mortal make up, hunger and thirst, lust and jealousy are not sinful in and of themselves, for if they are we sin when we hunger and thirst after righteousness, the Spirit sins when it lusts against the flesh and God is a sinner because He is a jealous God.
Satan plays on everything God gave us and when we unite with him he corrupts our all that which was given for good and makes it evil.
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Jesus was PERFECTED through suffering, but He had to know the difference between good and evil from His father.
Yes Jesus suffered, but He suffered for righteousness (for His obedience), sake and not as the unrighteous do ( for their disobedience).
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For you can't convince me you can know good without knowing evil. Hence the tree of the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD AND EVIL. It was not the tree of the knowledge of evil only.
No I cannot convince you that we can know good without knowing evil, all I can do is point you to Christ, who is the WAY the TRUTH and the LIFE.
And as Christ is the WAY TRUTH and LIFE why is it some many look to Adam way (death) as being Gods plan from the very beginning?
LIFE is God’s plan from the very beginning, but because so many believe God’s plan included Adam way (death) they have taken their eyes off of Christ who is the WAY.
You say we cannot know good without knowing evil (which just an excuse people came up with because they don’t understand how we can know all things through Christ/LIFE), and I say we can know all things through Christ.
All I can tell people is to STOP looking at Adams WAYS and start looking at Christ’s WAYS. If they don’t they will always see death as a part of LIFE.
Concerning the tree of KOGE.
The tree of knowledge of good and evil is the law and the law is spiritual, it is a GOOD TREE, not a GOOD and EVIL tree.
There is NO actual tree of good and evil, the tree represents the commandment “thou shalt notâ€
It is not only a warning telling us not to do such and such it is also a commandment of promise that we will not do such and such.
Example: thoushalt not covet is telling us not to covet.
Put the promise side is tell us thoushalt not covet, meaning as long as we abide in Christ we will not covet, for if we walk in the spirit we will NOT fulfill the lust of the flesh.
What God was telling Adam was that as long as he obeyed His (Gods) voice, he would not die, but if he disobeyed His (Gods) voice, it would be his death.
There was NO temptation in the commandment; the temptation came about with the serpent who said, “Ye shall not surely dieâ€. Basically,what the serpent was telling Eve was that she could break Gods commandments and continue to live.
This is what was so enticing to Eve, she came to believe that she could break Gods commandments and continue to live.
So God did not tempt man by giving him the commandment, which was ordained unto life, God wanted man to live, which is why He gave the commandment in the first place.
The problem most have is that they look at the two trees in the garden as though they are literal trees, but they are not, for there is no literal tree that can gives us life, that tree is just a representation of Christ.
well Paul my focus is on Christ, not Adam and if you cannot see the truth found in Christ I cannot help you.
Interesting Pneuma, your telling me that what your saying is Truth but what I say isn't. I figured that was the case. You thought it was wrong for me to claim that I was telling the Truth as if I guess you think I was supposed to just claim that what I was saying a Lie. This is why it is pointless to talk to you about anything pneuma, it amounts to irrational discussion.
Interesting Pneuma, your telling me that what your saying is Truth but what I say isn't. I figured that was the case. You thought it was wrong for me to claim that I was telling the Truth as if I guess you think I was supposed to just claim that what I was saying a Lie. This is why it is pointless to talk to you about anything pneuma, it amounts to irrational discussion.
Paul
This is very disingenuous, Trettep . . . you purposely capitalize Truth (implying the ultimate absolute truth) and then purposely pretend that the only other alternative is a Lie (similarly capitalized). First . . . NONE of us is in possession of the absolute ultimate Truth. We are simply capable of believing our version of the truth . . . and believing others are wrong. It has nothing to do with whether or not we are being "truthful" or a "liar." Trying to provoke an argument about LYING in a discussion where NO ONE but God knows the real answer is not loving or Christian.
This is very disingenuous, Trettep . . . you purposely capitalize Truth (implying the ultimate absolute truth) and then purposely pretend that the only other alternative is a Lie (similarly capitalized). First . . . NONE of us is in possession of the absolute ultimate Truth. We are simply capable of believing our version of the truth . . . and believing others are wrong. It has nothing to do with whether or not we are being "truthful" or a "liar." Trying to provoke an argument about LYING in a discussion where NO ONE but God knows the real answer is not loving or Christian.
I claimed to tell the Truth as opposed to telling a lie. Your making assumptions about what I'm claiming.
Yes we comfort where with we have been comforted ,but this does not give us a license to be so insensitive to someones pain to say "you know what God meant that for good" .
I have no problem applying that to myself as i have seen that work first hand in my own life.
The danger of accrediting evil to God without doing so in the Spirit can be very destructive.
The thread on this forum about babies dying is an example of this.
We have to be so sensitive to the Holy Spirit when ministering to others.
I don't think anyone on this thread has said that it is ok to be insensitive to those whose babies, children, even adult children have died. I believe it is the OP's intent to get to the reason that death occurs at all Perhaps I am wrong.
Part of the reason we do suffer is to sympathize and empathize and provide comfort to those who are suffering. And of course who would suggest that at that critical time that it's a good thing? Those words aren't comfort to a parent's ears, ever.
And as a universalist, I sure wouldn't suggest those little ones are in hell or in a bad place. I personally don't believe in consciousness after death until the resurrection, but if a parent hangs onto the hope that their child is with God,I would not try to tell him/her differently.
A time like that is not a time for teaching. It is the Holy Spirit who teaches anyway. No matter the vessel that He might use.
Interesting Pneuma, your telling me that what your saying is Truth but what I say isn't. I figured that was the case. You thought it was wrong for me to claim that I was telling the Truth as if I guess you think I was supposed to just claim that what I was saying a Lie. This is why it is pointless to talk to you about anything pneuma, it amounts to irrational discussion.
Paul
Paul I never said that, I said
well Paul my focus is on Christ, not Adam and if you cannot see the truth found in Christ I cannot help you.
So I never said what I am telling you is the truth, I said my FOCUS is on CHRIST, who is the TRUTH.
If ones FOCUS is not on CHRIST than how can one understand TRUTH?
I claimed to tell the Truth as opposed to telling a lie. Your making assumptions about what I'm claiming.
Paul
Riiiiiight! . . . that is why you always capitalize "Truth," right? . . . at least give us credit for minimum intelligence, trettep. You have NO WAY of knowing whether or not it is a lie in the absolute sense . . . because only God knows that. You and I and everyone else are fallible . . . we can only BELIEVE our understanding of it is not a lie.
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.I reject that the God of ALL comfort is anything even close to this.
