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Pneuma, I'm not going to toss you Gold so that you can treat it as dung. I purposely don't tell you a great many things because you don't consider them.
Paul
Paul I showed you your understanding of what you call gold is in error because babes in Christ are carnal and drink of the milk of the word.
So unless you can show me where it says babes in Christ HATE God and the milk is NOT of God, you should really reconsider what you beleive being carnal means.
And you may think I have not consider these things Paul, but the truth of the matter is I once beleived as you and many other of my brothers and sister who beleive in UR beleive.
So not only did I consider it I taught it.
Milk does a body good, but strong meat is for those who have come of age or those who are being weaned of the milk.
Paul I showed you your understanding of what you call gold is in error because babes in Christ are carnal and drink of the milk of the word.
So unless you can show me where it says babes in Christ HATE God and the milk is NOT of God, you should really reconsider what you beleive being carnal means.
And you may think I have not consider these things Paul, but the truth of the matter is I once beleived as you and many other of my brothers and sister who beleive in UR beleive.
So not only did I consider it I taught it.
Milk does a body good, but strong meat is for those who have come of age or those who are being weaned of the milk.
No pneuma, I'm going to be more wise about the information and the means by which others go to gain it. I think the hungry have need of it not the fed. You have indicated your not hungry for it.
What GOOD would have come from Adam never disobeying God? If you don't experience consequences of wrong choices, you do not learn. You can't even appreciate making the right choice because you have no concept of what making the wrong choice could do.
At some point, you HAVE to make a wrong choice so you can learn the difference between good and evil. So much more glory and love and honor is now possible because we know what the wrong choices cause. And there HAS to be vessels of dishonor with which to contrast the vessels of honor.
Adam was an innocent, and how could an innocent ever rule with any knowledge or wisdom? You can't learn the difference between right and wrong until you experience the effects of making the wrong choice. Even if you watched it, you can't really identify with it unless you have been at least in some kind of comparable situation. So how much glory would there be in ruling when there is virtually nothing to overcome. Do you think even if Adam/Eve made the right choice that time that they would continually make the right choice? How could they become stronger unless they become weak?
Just how I have come to perceive things. May God give us all the wisdom to explore and love each other tho we don't see things the same way.
What GOOD would have come from Adam never disobeying God? If you don't experience consequences of wrong choices, you do not learn. You can't even appreciate making the right choice because you have no concept of what making the wrong choice could do.
At some point, you HAVE to make a wrong choice so you can learn the difference between good and evil. So much more glory and love and honor is now possible because we know what the wrong choices cause. And there HAS to be vessels of dishonor with which to contrast the vessels of honor.
Adam was an innocent, and how could an innocent ever rule with any knowledge or wisdom? You can't learn the difference between right and wrong until you experience the effects of making the wrong choice. Even if you watched it, you can't really identify with it unless you have been at least in some kind of comparable situation. So how much glory would there be in ruling when there is virtually nothing to overcome. Do you think even if Adam/Eve made the right choice that time that they would continually make the right choice? How could they become stronger unless they become weak?
Just how I have come to perceive things. May God give us all the wisdom to explore and love each other tho we don't see things the same way.
God wanted to show us His glory. Laying down His life for His friends and enemies. God also wanted love our enemies, bless those who curse us, forgive those who use us. To be perfect as He is perfect. In a world where everyone is good and loving to us, none of that would have been possible.
What GOOD would have come from Adam never disobeying God?
Death and sin would never have been imputed unto man.
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If you don't experience consequences of wrong choices, you do not learn. You can't even appreciate making the right choice because you have no concept of what making the wrong choice could do.
Did Jesus need to be disobedient in order to understand all these things?
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At some point, you HAVE to make a wrong choice so you can learn the difference between good and evil. So much more glory and love and honor is now possible because we know what the wrong choices cause. And there HAS to be vessels of dishonor with which to contrast the vessels of honor.
Jesus never made the wrong choice so by your analogy Jesus did not know the difference between good and evil.
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Adam was an innocent, and how could an innocent ever rule with any knowledge or wisdom?
If Adam had of ate from the tree of life (Christ) he would have had all the knowledge and wisdom to rule.
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You can't learn the difference between right and wrong until you experience the effects of making the wrong choice.
Again Jesus knew the difference and never made a wrong choice.
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Even if you watched it, you can't really identify with it unless you have been at least in some kind of comparable situation.
By that analogy Jesus cannot identify the difference between good and evil.
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So how much glory would there be in ruling when there is virtually nothing to overcome. Do you think even if Adam/Eve made the right choice that time that they would continually make the right choice? How could they become stronger unless they become weak?
By resisting the devil.
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Just how I have come to perceive things. May God give us all the wisdom to explore and love each other tho we don't see things the same way.
Amen, I too use to believe as you do sis, but Jesus showed me another WAY.
Everything you believe man must experience to know the difference between good and evil Jesus shows us by His life is not the case.
There is a way that seemeth right unto a man but the ends thereof are the ways of death.
Gods ways are NOT OUR WAYS
This should make it evident that death is not Gods way.
No pneuma, I'm going to be more wise about the information and the means by which others go to gain it. I think the hungry have need of it not the fed. You have indicated your not hungry for it.
Paul
I am hungry for truth Paul, but as I pointed out to you what you have stated about being carnal is not the truth.
If you want to continue to feed other YOUR beleif so be it, but don't go around telling everone it is the truth.
Can someone tell me how God, who is the God of all comfort , comforts a young mother through us that as just lost her precious baby, by saying "you know what this is God's doing , He is behind this , one day when you will understand the deeper things of God , the Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away".I reject that the God of ALL comfort is anything even close to this.
Jesus was NOT like us when it comes to knowledge of good and evil. His father was not human. Can you honestly say that you could learn what the consequences of wrong choices are if you never made a wrong choice? How can you know that it is really GOOD to make the correct choice until you make the wrong one, or at the very least to see a sibling corrected for defying his parents? I had two children and it is a human's nature to defy authority. They reach for something and you stop them and they will reach for it again. My daughter got her hands smacked over and over reaching for the Christmas tree ornaments by her father until her hands were red and finally collapsed into sobs. It is our nature to want to touch, taste, explore the things around us. The scriptures don't describe Jesus' infancy, whether or not he ever tried to take a cookie when he was told not to. If not, then He had something within him that none of us was born with.
Until Adam disobeyed God, could He know how GOOD it was to obey Him? I don't see how. As a human you can't empathize with someone in pain unless you felt pain. You can't sympathize with someone who loses a loved one until you experience the loss of someone close to you, at least a pet. To sympathize, you must at least have SOME idea of what it feels like to experience the bad. Jesus was ONE with the Father and so His wisdom and knowledge was with Him, though He did have to experience physical pain as well as temptation. But you take a baby, somehow make it impossible for him to feel physical pain, hunger, never experience want or need and see what he grows into. A selfish spoiled brat. But as we are mortal, we could hardly go a week without experiencing hunger, thirst, or some physical discomfort. Who doesn't fall down and experience bruises when learning to walk?
Jesus was PERFECTED through suffering, but He had to know the difference between good and evil from His father. For you can't convince me you can know good without knowing evil. Hence the tree of the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD AND EVIL. It was not the tree of the knowledge of evil only.
Jesus was NOT like us when it comes to knowledge of good and evil. His father was not human. Can you honestly say that you could learn what the consequences of wrong choices are if you never made a wrong choice? How can you know that it is really GOOD to make the correct choice until you make the wrong one, or at the very least to see a sibling corrected for defying his parents? I had two children and it is a human's nature to defy authority. They reach for something and you stop them and they will reach for it again. My daughter got her hands smacked over and over reaching for the Christmas tree ornaments by her father until her hands were red and finally collapsed into sobs. It is our nature to want to touch, taste, explore the things around us. The scriptures don't describe Jesus' infancy, whether or not he ever tried to take a cookie when he was told not to. If not, then He had something within him that none of us was born with.
Until Adam disobeyed God, could He know how GOOD it was to obey Him? I don't see how. As a human you can't empathize with someone in pain unless you felt pain. You can't sympathize with someone who loses a loved one until you experience the loss of someone close to you, at least a pet. To sympathize, you must at least have SOME idea of what it feels like to experience the bad. Jesus was ONE with the Father and so His wisdom and knowledge was with Him, though He did have to experience physical pain as well as temptation. But you take a baby, somehow make it impossible for him to feel physical pain, hunger, never experience want or need and see what he grows into. A selfish spoiled brat. But as we are mortal, we could hardly go a week without experiencing hunger, thirst, or some physical discomfort. Who doesn't fall down and experience bruises when learning to walk?
Jesus was PERFECTED through suffering, but He had to know the difference between good and evil from His father. For you can't convince me you can know good without knowing evil. Hence the tree of the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD AND EVIL. It was not the tree of the knowledge of evil only.
Yes we comfort where with we have been comforted ,but this does not give us a license to be so insensitive to someones pain to say "you know what God meant that for good" .
I have no problem applying that to myself as i have seen that work first hand in my own life.
The danger of accrediting evil to God without doing so in the Spirit can be very destructive.
The thread on this forum about babies dying is an example of this.
We have to be so sensitive to the Holy Spirit when ministering to others.
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.I reject that the God of ALL comfort is anything even close to this.
