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Old 07-21-2009, 11:23 PM
 
Location: NC
14,876 posts, read 17,148,619 times
Reputation: 1526

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From one of your links, Rodger. God bless.
Quote:

The verdict has been Scripturally declared for over 1900 years and most of mankind has still not heard the pronouncement that… “In Adam ALL died, even so shall ALL be made alive in Christ.”
God will have all saved (1 Tim. 2:4, KJV); Salvation of all testified (1 Tim. 2:6); Jesus came to save all (John 12:47); All come into Him (Eph. 1:10); All reconciled unto God (Col. 1:20); Mercy on all (Rom. 11:32); God will be all in all (1 Cor. 15:28); Jesus is Heir of all things (Heb. 1:2); All families blessed (Gen. 18:18); All flesh will come to God (Psalms 65:2-4); Jesus will draw all mankind to Himself (John 12:32); Jesus is Savior of all (John 4:42); (And dozens of other scriptures.)“Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the SIN of the world.” (John 1:29)Now what on earth is the “SIN” (singular) of the world? The Bible frequently speaks of our own sins in plural form. But here we find the Savior of the world has come to take away the SIN of the world.Once again, the true meaning of the SIN of the world has been hidden from us due to faulty Bible translations. The singular “sin” of the world is Adam's single act which brought death to the whole human race. Death was imputed to us through Adam, not a sin-nature or his sin. And Jesus came to take this imputed death from all of Adam's progeny which is every human being that was ever born into this world of death.
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/ad...ill_christ.pdf
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Old 07-22-2009, 05:55 AM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
3,153 posts, read 3,405,881 times
Reputation: 259
Default Regarding Strongs and Greek English Bible dictionaries

Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
Lets take your example of 12:32

According to strongs greek dictionary states:

From the same as G104; properly an age; by extension perpetuity (also past); by implication the world; specifically (Jewish) a Messianic period (present or future):—age, course, eternal, (for) ever (-more), [n-]ever, (beginning of the, while the) world (began, without end).

G104
ἀεί
aei
ah-eye'
From an obsolete primary noun (apparently meaning continued duration); “ever”; by qualification regularly; by implication earnestly:—always, ever.

There are many greek words that are used that have dual meaning. Any student of languages knows that. Also the same word and how it is used can have a different meaning by implication. Don't tell me about biased translating.... Like greek, any language does that.

Frankly, no one here has yet to prove that one's knowledge about greek usage and its implied applications is anything more than what you can cut and paste....and I can prove that I can cut and paste as well

If you don't agree with Strong's, take it up with them.
Strongs and Greek English Bible dictionaries merely state how words were translated in the KJV. They don't give the literal meaning like Young's Literal Translation does.

Here is what I perceive to be the correct translation.
The eons of the Bible With Concordance, God’s purpose of the eons.
and
TIME AND ETERNITY: A Biblical Study
and
Matthew 25:46 - “Aionian” or “Eternal”
and
SCHOLAR’S CORNER
Scholar's Corner: The Center for Bible studies in Christian Universalism

As nearly always happens this argument ends in a stalemate with both sides saying "The Greek scholars that I rely on are more dependable than your Greek scholars."

I choose the one that IMHO best glorifies the character of God.

Personally, I believe that the doctrine that God will sustain anyone alive in a state of inescapable eternal suffering is the greatest of all blasphemies that can be directed against the character of God!

ETERNAL SUFFERING - NO
"KOLASIS AIONION" WHICH MEANS AGE-DURING CORRECTIVE CHASTISEMENT - YES

If readers think it glorifies God more to believe that He is going to let some of His creatures suffer forever or annihilate them, then they should keep believing that.
But if they think it glorifies God more to eventually meet everyone on the level of their greatest and deepest need, which is a change in their stubborn will, then I would like them to know that that is exactly what the Bible teaches that God is like.

THE MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE - IMHO

The findings of Greek scholar Louis Abbott and the many other Greek scholars quoted in chapters three and twelve of his online book IMHO renders all other arguments irrelevant.

IMHO these findings effectively close the case on the arguments that eternal tormentors try so hard to uphold.
But of course one has to actually read them to see what I mean.

Click on
An Analytical Study of Words

chapter headings
• About the Author
• Dedication
• Forward
• Chapter1 - Definitions of Aion, Aionios
• Chapter2 - Usages of Aion
• Chapter3 - Opinion of the Scholars
• Chapter4 - Apparent Contradictions
• Chapter5 - "Forever and Ever" - A Poor Translation
• Chapter6 - What Saith The Translations?
• Chapter7 - Eonian Means What? - A Search For Truth
• Chapter8 - Greek Tools
• Chapter9 - Examples in Greek Literature
• Chapter10 - Bibles Without "Everlasting Punishment"
• Chapter11 - Verses "Proving" Punishment Will be Everlasting
• Chapter12 - Scholars Acknowledge Restitution of All
• Chapter13 - Punishment? Yes - Everlasting? No
• Chapter14 - A Long, But Not Eternal Visit To "Hell"
• Chapter15 - The "Chosen," Not "I have chosen"
• Chapter16 - Clearing Things Up
• Chapter17 - The Complete Revelation
• Appendix 1 - Commentary of Previous Presentation
• Appendix 2 - Do You Believe ALL in the Bible?
• Appendix 3 - Reconciliation Scriptures
• Appendix 4 - What Pleases the Father?
• Appendix 5 - What if we are Wrong?

• Christian Biblical Universalism versus Annihilation
Eternal Death (Annihilation): One Step Out of Hell; One Step Short of Glory
• Bible Threatenings Explained
Bible Threatenings Explained
• Universal Salvation University
Universal Salvation University

Last edited by rodgertutt; 07-22-2009 at 06:03 AM.. Reason: spelling
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Old 07-22-2009, 06:17 AM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
3,153 posts, read 3,405,881 times
Reputation: 259
Default I started this thread to share my testimony

I started this thread to share my testimony in case it might be a help to others whose experience is similar to mine.
That is why I like to keep what I perceive to be the important information up front.

My name is Rodger Tutt.

I live in Toronto, Canada, and I’m 70 years old.

I’m a Christian Biblical Universal Transformationist.

Before you brush off my assertion by saying “there is no such a thing,” think about the following.

MY TRIBUTE TO RAY PRINZING

Ray Prinzing is my hero and mentor.
His writings can be Googled up and read online.
Just type in Ray Prinzing.

During my twelve year nervous breakdown caused by my inability to emotionally cope with the idea that God lets any creature suffer forever in hell, every morning, as I washed my family’s dishes, I would listen to one of Ray Prinzing’s many tapes.

I have listened to 178 of them several times, and 23 of them many times
In addition to these tapes, I always read every issue of his periodical GOSPEL ECHOES which he later renamed LETTERS OF TRUTH and gleaned many pages of his writings into my personal journal.

Many people have a hero, someone in their life that made a contribution to their welfare so significant that it is far above the influence that anyone else has had.

Ray Prinzing is that hero to me.

For several years my 96 year old dad called me from his nursing home each evening. Each time he called I read a portion of my over four thousand page journal to him, and many of these readings are the gleanings that I wrote from Ray Prinzing’s writings and tapes. Many nights my dad fell asleep listening to one of Ray’s tapes.

As I listened to Ray’s tapes during my nervous breakdown (1966-78) I gradually became more and more sure that I was going to recover. The contents of his tapes gave me the courage, in 1978, to take a public stand that I believe that the Bible teaches universal transformation, not endless suffering in hell, or even annihilation. (I’m 70 years old now)

My panic attacks completely stopped.

And now I spend most of my time offering people, in various ways, the information that helped me recover and helps me stayed recovered, and I am pleased to report that I have a lot of evidence that the info I post has helped, and is helping many other people in the same way that it helped me.

Richard Condon's large library of prolific writings by dozens of Christian Biblical Universalists can be found here.
GOD’S TRUTH LIBRARY
God's Truth For Today! - Author Index (http://www.gtft.org/Library/index1.html - broken link)
and
IN THE GARDEN
In The Garden - Index (http://www.gtft.org/InTheGarden/index.html - broken link)

Ray Prinzing has now passed on, but his influence is so wide spread that he will not be forgotten on this earth for many, many years, if ever. And that is a very good thing!

J. Preston Eby was a good friend of Ray Prinzing. They frequently quoted each other in their writings. Read what J. Preston Eby wrote about this subject. Copy and paste into Google
WILL JESUS TORTURE BILLIONS FOREVER? or click on
The Law of Circularity: Will Jesus Torture Billions Forever? How Men Are Saved

The entire series of fifteen chapters by J. Preston Eby on this subject can be accessed at
Savior of the World Series
His writing specifically on universal transformation is at

The Restitution of All Things
SEE ESPECIALLY THE VERY LAST PARAGRAPH IN THAT ARTICLE
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Old 07-22-2009, 06:25 AM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
3,153 posts, read 3,405,881 times
Reputation: 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodgertutt View Post
When I was seven my stepmother lit a fire in a beaker and said to me, "If you don't open your heart's door to Jesus and invite Him in, God is going to put you into a fire much bigger and hotter than that after you die and He will never ever let you get out of it.”

So in my heart I prayed the way she said that I had to.

Awhile later she said it's obvious that you still are not saved because you are still such a bad boy.

At that point in time I felt totally hopeless, and I was sure that God had given up on me.

My Dad used to beat me with a bamboo cane repeatedly shouting "In Jesus Name, in Jesus Name," until the welts on my legs would bleed. He told me that it was easy to tell at an early age that I was going to go to hell.

Then they both sent me away to a foster home because they could no longer cope with my bad behavior. My real mother had died giving birth to me. My Dad's second wife had died at child birth too but the child did not live either.

So at the age of seven I became convinced that everyone had given up on me, including God.

Later, at the age of 28 (I'm 70 now) I began a twelve year nervous breakdown over my inability to successfully emotionally cope with the idea that God lets any creature suffer forever. I was only able to recover by gradually learning that there are no verses in the Bible that teach endless suffering in hell for anyone. See
BIBLE THREATENINGS EXPLAINED – John Wesley Hanson
Bible Threatenings Explained

From Rodger Tutt in Toronto, Canada
“That God may be All in all” 1Cor.15:28

THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD SERIES
Savior of the World Series

ABSOLUTE ASSURANCE IN JESUS CHRIST
absolute assurance in jesus christ
From my earliest memories of my childhood I was taught by my parents and Sunday School teachers and pastors that if I didn't believe the Bible is the word of God then God will throw me into hell fire after I died where I would suffer forever. These were the people on whom I relied to tell me the truth, and I was afraid not to believe them.

If I had not been taught that about the Bible I am sure that I would have chosen to live out my life as an agnostic, rather than put my trust in a book that taught that there is a god who is going to sustain people alive in an inescapable state of suffering forever.

I think that probably most of the agnosticim in this world is caused by people choosing to live out their lives as agnostics, rather than put their trust in a book that teaches such a god as the ETers claim to love and worship.

Many agnostics are decent people who try their best to be as good as they can be simply because they want to treat other people with love and respect, the same way that they would like to be treated too. But they would rather live out their life and die in the hope that they will find out that God is not like the eternal tormentors claim He is.

This has become my attitude too. Were it not for the fact that I have discovered evidence that the Bible does not teach an ET god, then I too would rather live out my life as an agnostic and hope for the best after I die, rather than pretend to love and respect an eternal hell god.
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Old 07-22-2009, 09:20 AM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
3,153 posts, read 3,405,881 times
Reputation: 259
Default What god’s love is really like

Abraham Lincoln said to the eternal torment evangelist
“Your god is my devil.”

WHAT GOD’S LOVE IS REALLY LIKE
God is Love

The Bible says that God is love. Love is not just one of God’s attributes.

God is not just a loving individual. God is love in essence.

What a travesty; what a revolting definition of love it is that God, Who is love personified, would grant any creature a will so strong (Arminian) that they can choose themselves into an irreversible state of never ending suffering! Or, they deserve to suffer forever (Calvinist), just because they were born into the human race.

Love Divine - by D. Buchanan
“FROM the lips of love's apostle, exiled for love on Patmos' lonely isle, there sounds out in the saying, "God is Love," the most concise and comprehensive utterance in all language, the most sublime declaration of truth by mortals ever heard. These three one-syllable words reveal the character of God and make it to be known that behind things, as the source and fountain-head from which they spring, there throbs the one great heart of infinite, unchanging love.

Although, to finite understanding, life may meanwhile seem a tangled skein, and providence a confusion, yet when all the processes of Love have run their course, then it will be seen that the history of the ages, the story of the race, can be written with one small word, the term of infinite fullness that tells us what God is.

"God is Light" and "God is Love." Light, in passing through a prism, is separated into its component parts and appears as the seven colors of the rainbow. Each separate shade is a manifestation of light, and, although no one color in itself is light, yet without it light would not be what it is. So, too, the invisible love-light of Deity, passing through the prism of divine providence, appears as mercy, as righteousness, as goodness, as power. The operation of each attribute is a manifestation of love, and although no one quality in itself is love, yet without it, love would not be what it is. As the blue is in contrast to the red in the rainbow hues, so righteousness is to mercy in the spectrum of love.

When the mercy manifestation of itself accomplishes God's purpose, then mercy is glad that righteousness was not required, for "mercy rejoiceth against judgment." Yet the heart that moves the mercy hand is the same heart that, if need be, moves the judgment hand, and that heart is God, and God is Love.

God loves just because He is Love, yet Love's hope in loving is to create and call forth love; hence Love's victory is love reciprocated, love returned. So it is that Love, mingling mercy with righteousness, moves ever on, longsuffering and kind, but failing never, until at length the creature heart responds in fullness, to love unbounded and divine.

And when, at length, humanity, redeemed, ransomed, transformed by the divine from which it sprang, has thus taken on the likeness of Love's perfect Man, the Man of Galilee and Golgotha, then Love, the Alpha, will likewise have become the Omega of all things, the atmosphere in which we live and move and have our being, and the universe will be flooded with divine affection.”

Kingdom Bible Studies: J. Preston Eby, Kingdom of God; Saviour of The World

Absolute Assurance

for the scriptural evidence that God has the desire, ability, and determination to eventually save all fallen creatures from everything from which they need to be saved, including their stubborn wills. Or click on
The Law of Circularity
or
absolute assurance in jesus christ
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Old 07-22-2009, 01:53 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
3,153 posts, read 3,405,881 times
Reputation: 259
Default Christian biblical universalist writings

Quote:
Originally Posted by rodgertutt View Post
I started this thread to share my testimony in case it might be a help to others whose experience is similar to mine.
That is why I like to keep what I perceive to be the important information up front.

My name is Rodger Tutt.

I live in Toronto, Canada, and I’m 70 years old.

I’m a Christian Biblical Universal Transformationist.

Before you brush off my assertion by saying “there is no such a thing,” think about the following.

MY TRIBUTE TO RAY PRINZING

Ray Prinzing is my hero and mentor.
His writings can be Googled up and read online.
Just type in Ray Prinzing.

During my twelve year nervous breakdown caused by my inability to emotionally cope with the idea that God lets any creature suffer forever in hell, every morning, as I washed my family’s dishes, I would listen to one of Ray Prinzing’s many tapes.

I have listened to 178 of them several times, and 23 of them many times
In addition to these tapes, I always read every issue of his periodical GOSPEL ECHOES which he later renamed LETTERS OF TRUTH and gleaned many pages of his writings into my personal journal.

Many people have a hero, someone in their life that made a contribution to their welfare so significant that it is far above the influence that anyone else has had.

Ray Prinzing is that hero to me.

For several years my 96 year old dad called me from his nursing home each evening. Each time he called I read a portion of my over four thousand page journal to him, and many of these readings are the gleanings that I wrote from Ray Prinzing’s writings and tapes. Many nights my dad fell asleep listening to one of Ray’s tapes.

As I listened to Ray’s tapes during my nervous breakdown (1966-78) I gradually became more and more sure that I was going to recover. The contents of his tapes gave me the courage, in 1978, to take a public stand that I believe that the Bible teaches universal transformation, not endless suffering in hell, or even annihilation. (I’m 70 years old now)

My panic attacks completely stopped.

And now I spend most of my time offering people, in various ways, the information that helped me recover and helps me stayed recovered, and I am pleased to report that I have a lot of evidence that the info I post has helped, and is helping many other people in the same way that it helped me.

Richard Condon's large library of prolific writings by dozens of Christian Biblical Universalists can be found here.
GOD’S TRUTH LIBRARY
God's Truth For Today! - Author Index (http://www.gtft.org/Library/index1.html - broken link)
and
IN THE GARDEN
In The Garden - Index (http://www.gtft.org/InTheGarden/index.html - broken link)

Ray Prinzing has now passed on, but his influence is so wide spread that he will not be forgotten on this earth for many, many years, if ever. And that is a very good thing!

J. Preston Eby was a good friend of Ray Prinzing. They frequently quoted each other in their writings. Read what J. Preston Eby wrote about this subject. Copy and paste into Google
WILL JESUS TORTURE BILLIONS FOREVER? or click on
The Law of Circularity: Will Jesus Torture Billions Forever? How Men Are Saved

The entire series of fifteen chapters by J. Preston Eby on this subject can be accessed at
Savior of the World Series
His writing specifically on universal transformation is at

The Restitution of All Things
SEE ESPECIALLY THE VERY LAST PARAGRAPH IN THAT ARTICLE
THE WRITINGS OF DOZENS OF TEACHERS OF CHRISTIAN BIBLICAL UNIVERSALISM
God's Truth For Today! - Author Index (http://www.gtft.org/Library/index1.html - broken link)
and
IN THE GARDEN
In The Garden - Index (http://www.gtft.org/InTheGarden/index.html - broken link)

Christian Universalism: Universalist Thought Through Church History
Well known Christian church leaders who believed and taught Biblical universalism down through the centuries.
Including a separate list of famous people embracing Christian universalism.
Christian Universalism: Universalist Thought Through Church History
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Old 07-22-2009, 03:52 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
3,153 posts, read 3,405,881 times
Reputation: 259
Default Chart of god’s plan for the ages of time

Quote:
Originally Posted by rodgertutt View Post
Strongs and Greek English Bible dictionaries merely state how words were translated in the KJV. They don't give the literal meaning like Young's Literal Translation does.

Here is what I perceive to be the correct translation.
The eons of the Bible With Concordance, God’s purpose of the eons.
and
TIME AND ETERNITY: A Biblical Study
and
Matthew 25:46 - “Aionian” or “Eternal”
and
SCHOLAR’S CORNER
Scholar's Corner: The Center for Bible studies in Christian Universalism

As nearly always happens this argument ends in a stalemate with both sides saying "The Greek scholars that I rely on are more dependable than your Greek scholars."

I choose the one that IMHO best glorifies the character of God.

Personally, I believe that the doctrine that God will sustain anyone alive in a state of inescapable eternal suffering is the greatest of all blasphemies that can be directed against the character of God!

ETERNAL SUFFERING - NO
"KOLASIS AIONION" WHICH MEANS AGE-DURING CORRECTIVE CHASTISEMENT - YES

If readers think it glorifies God more to believe that He is going to let some of His creatures suffer forever or annihilate them, then they should keep believing that.
But if they think it glorifies God more to eventually meet everyone on the level of their greatest and deepest need, which is a change in their stubborn will, then I would like them to know that that is exactly what the Bible teaches that God is like.

THE MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE - IMHO

The findings of Greek scholar Louis Abbott and the many other Greek scholars quoted in chapters three and twelve of his online book IMHO renders all other arguments irrelevant.

IMHO these findings effectively close the case on the arguments that eternal tormentors try so hard to uphold.
But of course one has to actually read them to see what I mean.

Click on
An Analytical Study of Words

chapter headings
• About the Author
• Dedication
• Forward
• Chapter1 - Definitions of Aion, Aionios
• Chapter2 - Usages of Aion
• Chapter3 - Opinion of the Scholars
• Chapter4 - Apparent Contradictions
• Chapter5 - "Forever and Ever" - A Poor Translation
• Chapter6 - What Saith The Translations?
• Chapter7 - Eonian Means What? - A Search For Truth
• Chapter8 - Greek Tools
• Chapter9 - Examples in Greek Literature
• Chapter10 - Bibles Without "Everlasting Punishment"
• Chapter11 - Verses "Proving" Punishment Will be Everlasting
• Chapter12 - Scholars Acknowledge Restitution of All
• Chapter13 - Punishment? Yes - Everlasting? No
• Chapter14 - A Long, But Not Eternal Visit To "Hell"
• Chapter15 - The "Chosen," Not "I have chosen"
• Chapter16 - Clearing Things Up
• Chapter17 - The Complete Revelation
• Appendix 1 - Commentary of Previous Presentation
• Appendix 2 - Do You Believe ALL in the Bible?
• Appendix 3 - Reconciliation Scriptures
• Appendix 4 - What Pleases the Father?
• Appendix 5 - What if we are Wrong?

• Christian Biblical Universalism versus Annihilation
Eternal Death (Annihilation): One Step Out of Hell; One Step Short of Glory
• Bible Threatenings Explained
Bible Threatenings Explained
• Universal Salvation University
Universal Salvation University
No two words in the history of man have been so torturing as aion and aionion. No two words in the history of man, mishandled by man, have contributed more to the physical, emotional and spiritual harm of so many, than these. You may think I must be exaggerating. But I am not. It is the mistranslation of these two words that has foisted the false and destructive doctrine of eternal torment upon the church and the world.

Mistranslation of the Greek words "aion" and “aionion” is a master stroke of diabolical genius. No other words erroneously translated, could more effectively pervert man’s image of God and cause such widespread confusion. The following work by Joseph E. Kirk is offered in the hope that the serious seeker after scriptural truth will be aided in their quest.
CHART OF GOD’S PLAN FOR THE AGES OF TIME
THE EONS OF THE BIBLE WITH CONCORDANCE
The eons of the Bible With Concordance, God’s purpose of the eons.

Also see
AN ANALYTICAL STUDY OF WORDS
An Analytical Study of Words
(especially note the quotes by the many Greek scholars in chapters three and twelve)

Also see
TIME AND ETERNITY A BIBLICAL STUDY
TIME AND ETERNITY: A Biblical Study
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Old 07-22-2009, 05:44 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
3,153 posts, read 3,405,881 times
Reputation: 259
Default I started this thread to share my testimony

I started this thread to share my testimony in case it might be a help to others whose experience is similar to mine.
That is why I like to keep what I perceive to be the important information up front.

My name is Rodger Tutt.

I live in Toronto, Canada, and I’m 70 years old.

I’m a Christian Biblical Universal Transformationist.

Before you brush off my assertion by saying “there is no such a thing,” think about the following.

MY TRIBUTE TO RAY PRINZING

Ray Prinzing is my hero and mentor.
His writings can be Googled up and read online.
Just type in Ray Prinzing.

During my twelve year nervous breakdown caused by my inability to emotionally cope with the idea that God lets any creature suffer forever in hell, every morning, as I washed my family’s dishes, I would listen to one of Ray Prinzing’s many tapes.

I have listened to 178 of them several times, and 23 of them many times
In addition to these tapes, I always read every issue of his periodical GOSPEL ECHOES which he later renamed LETTERS OF TRUTH and gleaned many pages of his writings into my personal journal.

Many people have a hero, someone in their life that made a contribution to their welfare so significant that it is far above the influence that anyone else has had.

Ray Prinzing is that hero to me.

For several years my 96 year old dad called me from his nursing home each evening. Each time he called I read a portion of my over four thousand page journal to him, and many of these readings are the gleanings that I wrote from Ray Prinzing’s writings and tapes. Many nights my dad fell asleep listening to one of Ray’s tapes.

As I listened to Ray’s tapes during my nervous breakdown (1966-78) I gradually became more and more sure that I was going to recover. The contents of his tapes gave me the courage, in 1978, to take a public stand that I believe that the Bible teaches universal transformation, not endless suffering in hell, or even annihilation. (I’m 70 years old now)

My panic attacks completely stopped.

And now I spend most of my time offering people, in various ways, the information that helped me recover and helps me stayed recovered, and I am pleased to report that I have a lot of evidence that the info I post has helped, and is helping many other people in the same way that it helped me.

Richard Condon's large library of prolific writings by dozens of Christian Biblical Universalists can be found here.
GOD’S TRUTH LIBRARY
God's Truth For Today! - Author Index (http://www.gtft.org/Library/index1.html - broken link)
and
IN THE GARDEN
In The Garden - Index (http://www.gtft.org/InTheGarden/index.html - broken link)

Ray Prinzing has now passed on, but his influence is so wide spread that he will not be forgotten on this earth for many, many years, if ever. And that is a very good thing!

J. Preston Eby was a good friend of Ray Prinzing. They frequently quoted each other in their writings. Read what J. Preston Eby wrote about this subject. Copy and paste into Google
WILL JESUS TORTURE BILLIONS FOREVER? or click on
The Law of Circularity: Will Jesus Torture Billions Forever? How Men Are Saved

The entire series of fifteen chapters by J. Preston Eby on this subject can be accessed at
Savior of the World Series
His writing specifically on universal transformation is at

The Restitution of All Things
SEE ESPECIALLY THE VERY LAST PARAGRAPH IN THAT ARTICLE

I started this thread to share my testimony
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Old 07-22-2009, 07:34 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
3,153 posts, read 3,405,881 times
Reputation: 259
Default A bit from my background

Quote:
Originally Posted by rodgertutt View Post
From my earliest memories of my childhood I was taught by my parents and Sunday School teachers and pastors that if I didn't believe the Bible is the word of God then God will throw me into hell fire after I died where I would suffer forever. These were the people on whom I relied to tell me the truth, and I was afraid not to believe them.

If I had not been taught that about the Bible I am sure that I would have chosen to live out my life as an agnostic, rather than put my trust in a book that taught that there is a god who is going to sustain people alive in an inescapable state of suffering forever.

I think that probably most of the agnosticim in this world is caused by people choosing to live out their lives as agnostics, rather than put their trust in a book that teaches such a god as the ETers claim to love and worship.

Many agnostics are decent people who try their best to be as good as they can be simply because they want to treat other people with love and respect, the same way that they would like to be treated too. But they would rather live out their life and die in the hope that they will find out that God is not like the eternal tormentors claim He is.

This has become my attitude too. Were it not for the fact that I have discovered evidence that the Bible does not teach an ET god, then I too would rather live out my life as an agnostic and hope for the best after I die, rather than pretend to love and respect an eternal hell god.
When I was seven my stepmother lit a fire in a beaker and said to me, "If you don't open your heart's door to Jesus and invite Him in, God is going to put you into a fire much bigger and hotter than that after you die and He will never ever let you get out of it.”

So in my heart I prayed the way she said that I had to.

Awhile later she said it's obvious that you still are not saved because you are still such a bad boy.
At that point in time I felt totally hopeless, and I was sure that God had given up on me.

My Dad used to beat me with a bamboo cane repeatedly shouting "In Jesus Name, in Jesus Name," until the welts on my legs would bleed. He told me that it was easy to tell at an early age that I was going to go to hell.

Then they both sent me away to a foster home because they could no longer cope with my bad behavior. My real mother had died giving birth to me. My Dad's second wife had died at child birth too but the child did not live either.
So at the age of seven I became convinced that everyone had given up on me, including God.

Later, at the age of 28 (I'm 70 now) I began a twelve year nervous breakdown over my inability to successfully emotionally cope with the idea that God lets any creature suffer forever. I was only able to recover by gradually learning that there are no verses in the Bible that teach endless suffering in hell for anyone. See
BIBLE THREATENINGS EXPLAINED – John Wesley Hanson
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Bible...Explained.html

From Rodger Tutt in Toronto, Canada
“That God may be All in all” 1Cor.15:28

THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD SERIES
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/sa...orld/index.htm
Or
ABSOLUTE ASSURANCE IN JESUS CHRIST
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Absol...us-Christ.html
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Old 07-23-2009, 04:30 AM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
3,153 posts, read 3,405,881 times
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Default BIBLE THREATENINGS EXPLAINED – John Wesley Hanson

Quote:
Originally Posted by rodgertutt View Post
I started this thread to share my testimony in case it might be a help to others whose experience is similar to mine.
That is why I like to keep what I perceive to be the important information up front.

My name is Rodger Tutt.

I live in Toronto, Canada, and I’m 70 years old.

I’m a Christian Biblical Universal Transformationist.

Before you brush off my assertion by saying “there is no such a thing,” think about the following.

MY TRIBUTE TO RAY PRINZING

Ray Prinzing is my hero and mentor.
His writings can be Googled up and read online.
Just type in Ray Prinzing.

During my twelve year nervous breakdown caused by my inability to emotionally cope with the idea that God lets any creature suffer forever in hell, every morning, as I washed my family’s dishes, I would listen to one of Ray Prinzing’s many tapes.

I have listened to 178 of them several times, and 23 of them many times
In addition to these tapes, I always read every issue of his periodical GOSPEL ECHOES which he later renamed LETTERS OF TRUTH and gleaned many pages of his writings into my personal journal.

Many people have a hero, someone in their life that made a contribution to their welfare so significant that it is far above the influence that anyone else has had.

Ray Prinzing is that hero to me.

For several years my 96 year old dad called me from his nursing home each evening. Each time he called I read a portion of my over four thousand page journal to him, and many of these readings are the gleanings that I wrote from Ray Prinzing’s writings and tapes. Many nights my dad fell asleep listening to one of Ray’s tapes.

As I listened to Ray’s tapes during my nervous breakdown (1966-78) I gradually became more and more sure that I was going to recover. The contents of his tapes gave me the courage, in 1978, to take a public stand that I believe that the Bible teaches universal transformation, not endless suffering in hell, or even annihilation. (I’m 70 years old now)

My panic attacks completely stopped.

And now I spend most of my time offering people, in various ways, the information that helped me recover and helps me stayed recovered, and I am pleased to report that I have a lot of evidence that the info I post has helped, and is helping many other people in the same way that it helped me.

Richard Condon's large library of prolific writings by dozens of Christian Biblical Universalists can be found here.
GOD’S TRUTH LIBRARY
God's Truth For Today! - Author Index (http://www.gtft.org/Library/index1.html - broken link)
and
IN THE GARDEN
In The Garden - Index (http://www.gtft.org/InTheGarden/index.html - broken link)

Ray Prinzing has now passed on, but his influence is so wide spread that he will not be forgotten on this earth for many, many years, if ever. And that is a very good thing!

J. Preston Eby was a good friend of Ray Prinzing. They frequently quoted each other in their writings. Read what J. Preston Eby wrote about this subject. Copy and paste into Google
WILL JESUS TORTURE BILLIONS FOREVER? or click on
The Law of Circularity: Will Jesus Torture Billions Forever? How Men Are Saved

The entire series of fifteen chapters by J. Preston Eby on this subject can be accessed at
Savior of the World Series
His writing specifically on universal transformation is at

The Restitution of All Things
SEE ESPECIALLY THE VERY LAST PARAGRAPH IN THAT ARTICLE

I started this thread to share my testimony
Here is another link that responds to all of the arguments that eternal tormentors have posted on this forum.

BIBLE THREATENINGS EXPLAINED – John Wesley Hanson
Bible Threatenings Explained
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