Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
You refuse to address the absurdity of your claim that it is sinful to believe in Christ in response to the gospel, so we are done.
If you think a dead person can believe in Christ, all i can say is that you are deceived. And I never said its sinful to believe in Christ, you are bearing false witness.
Show us the quote where I specifically stated " its sinful to believe in Christ in response to the Gospel "
I know I said that the natural man,, dead in sin, will give a sinful response to the Gospel, because the scripture says so 1 Cor 1:18
18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
Now if a person hears the Gospel, and responds by reckoning it foolishness, thats a sinful response !
People the choosing right or wrong and have the freedom to choose it was something G-d gave and he gave it to Adam that is why he disobeyed if he could not he would of not of fallen. The reason freewill has and even I don't like saying the devil had freewill. So know that freedom of deciding even do the word freewill does not exist in hebrew language and have found the same question the truth is that freedom to choose and disobey G-d has existed before the bible and angels and man have it.
To those who say there is no free will, define what you mean by 'Free will.'
Well, I am not sure about possessing free will, but I can try to define what it is.
The atheist, Christopher Hitchens, probably said it best. Even a dog or a monkey can make their limbs move when they want to. That isn't free will. Just because you can walk from one side of the room to the other doesn't mean you have free will.
Free will consists of doing something toward a purpose you understand, but which is not necessarily evident to the rest of the world. In fact, when all of the evidence says that you are doing the wrong thing, you will keep on going doing what you are doing because you know by free will that you are doing the right thing.
Free will is about choice. It isn't about making the right choice. It doesn't mean that you have all of the information you need to make that choice. It says nothing about ignorance. It only says something about having choice.
The best example of free will in the bible is the idea of the importance of love. It is possible to live life and interact with other human beings purely according to sets of laws that construct those interactions.
It is possible for a person who acts that way to do everything a person who chooses love does. But the person who chooses love will do it out of the conviction of their decisions, while the other person will have to learn every last behavior.
They will never be a fully independent being. It has to do with faith. It isn't just about how good love is, but the importance of the triumph of good!
How can you make that decision, though, if you haven't heard the word? What God does is stir up in you the kernel you need to even ask the questions. God helps you be honest with yourself in this way.
Honesty with yourself is different than whether you are guaranteed all of the information. I don't think free will is about getting into a state of lying to one's self, though it can be. There is a way that the worship of things like freedom can confuse people, and prevent them from listening any more deeply than to believe simply. Free will was never meant to stay simple, though. It is beholden to concepts such as intimacy. It is beholden to love.
We all have the freedom to make decisions that are consistent within our nature. So the unbeliever willfully chooses sin. The believer willfully chooses God. It's contingent on whether or not they can see the goodness of God. Pelagius said that one could freely see the good or the bad and he could choose. The Bible says sin blinds us.
God, in His sovereignty, has given us the freedom to choose life or death.
Ezekiel 18
21But if the wicked man turns from all the sins he has committed, keeps all My statutes, and does what is just and right, he will surely live; he will not die. 22 None of the transgressions he has committed will be held against him. Because of the righteousness he has practiced, he will live. 23 Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Lord GOD. Wouldn’t I prefer that he turn from his ways and live?
24 But if a righteous man turns from his righteousness and practices iniquity, committing the same abominations as the wicked, will he live? None of the righteous acts he did will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness and sin he has committed, he will die.
25 Yet you say, ‘The way of the Lord is not just.’
Hear now, O house of Israel: Is it My way that is unjust? Is it not your ways that are unjust?
26 If a righteous man turns from his righteousness and practices iniquity, he will die for this. He will die because of the iniquity he has committed.
27But if a wicked man turns from the wickedness he has committed and does what is just and right, he will save his life. 28 Because he considered and turned from all the transgressions he had committed, he will surely live; he will not die.
It does not the word or phrase freewill does not exist in the hebrew langauge it conception does not exist. But still to choose " לבחור" It is what closest word to freewill of choosing is.
Last edited by michaelgabriel88; 02-18-2022 at 09:13 AM..
It means mans will, heart, affections serve sin. So whatever response to the Gospel will be sinful !
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Way
You just said that believing in Christ in response to the gospel is sinful.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brightfame52
Yep, the Gospel to the natural man is foolishness, isnt that sinful response ? 1 Cor 1:18
For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
So again the will of man is a slave to sin, his response to the Gospel proves it. He ridicules the Gospel, not believe it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brightfame52
If you think a dead person can believe in Christ, all i can say is that you are deceived. And I never said its sinful to believe in Christ, you are bearing false witness.
Show us the quote where I specifically stated " its sinful to believe in Christ in response to the Gospel "
I know I said that the natural man,, dead in sin, will give a sinful response to the Gospel, because the scripture says so 1 Cor 1:18
18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
Now if a person hears the Gospel, and responds by reckoning it foolishness, thats a sinful response !
You even agreed with me that you said (by implication) that it is a sin to believe in Christ in response to the gospel when you said ''So whatever the response to the Gospel will be sinful.'' 'Whatever the response to the Gospel' includes believing in Christ as well as not believing in Christ. I told you to think about what you were saying.
And a spiritually dead person is not a physically dead person. A spiritually dead person is still alive physically and can make decisions and is capable of understanding things (well, some of us can ). When a person hears the gospel message the Holy Spirit makes the gospel message understandable to that person in his ministry of common grace. That person, having understood the gospel can then make a decision to place his faith in Christ or to not place his faith in Christ. As per John 16:8-11 the Holy Spirit convicts the world (the unbeliever) of the sin of unbelief, of righteousness, and of judgment. Simple.
Last edited by Michael Way; 02-18-2022 at 11:52 AM..
You even agreed with me that you said (by implication) that it is a sin to believe in Christ in response to the gospel when you said ''So whatever the response to the Gospel will be sinful.'' 'Whatever the response to the Gospel' includes believing in Christ as well as not believing in Christ. I told you to think about what you were saying.
And a spiritually dead person is not a physically dead person. A spiritually dead person is still alive physically and can make decisions and is capable of understanding things (well, some of us can ). When a person hears the gospel message the Holy Spirit makes the gospel message understandable to that person in his ministry of common grace. That person, having understood the gospel can then make a decision to place his faith in Christ or to not place his faith in Christ. As per John 16:8-11 the Holy Spirit convicts the world (the unbeliever) of the sin of unbelief, of righteousness, and of judgment. Simple.
Being physically alive doesnt cut it. Man by nature in the flesh is an enemy to God. Those in the flesh cannot please God Rom 8:8 and faith which is spiritual does please God Heb 11:6
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
So man cannot believe in Christ while hes in the flesh, unregenerate !
Jesus called physically alive people dead Lk 9:6
Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.
See those who were going to bury their dead, were dead themselves, because they were spiritually dead.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
). When a person hears the gospel message the Holy Spirit makes the gospel message understandable to that person in his ministry of common grace. That person, having understood the gospel can then make a decision to place his faith in Christ or to not place his faith in Christ. As per John 16:8-11 the Holy Spirit convicts the world (the unbeliever) of the sin of unbelief, of righteousness, and of judgment. Simple.
