Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
However, in their application, they serve to give to all men a choice as to whether they will receive the salvation offered or reject it.
Here is one example.
1Jo 2:2, And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
This verse serves to deny Calvinism's Limited Atonement for it teaches Universal Atonement.
However, it does not teach Universal salvation because while Jesus died for the sins of everyone, that death on the Cross is set forth as an offer to humanity and there are some who reject that offer.
Thus, even though Jesus died for all of my sins, I may not be forgiven of all of my sins because I may have rejected what Jesus did for me in order to procure that forgiveness.
You are of the belief.....There is nothing you must do to be saved....... Here is what you must do to be saved. This is a doctrine of demons.
We ARE saved BY what HE DID.....Period. Not saved from eternal hell, the scriptures do not teach that(only evangelicals do).
Saul absolutely had a choice, it's just that in that scenario, there is no way he would choose against God.
And guess what, God is not a human. God knows how we will respond and can present scenarios and circumstances that will bring us to where He wants us. Consider Jonah. God said "GO TO NINEVEH!". Jonah says "NO!". Well we know how that worked out . Jonah had a choice, yet God still knew what circumstances to bring for the desired outcome.
jbf this is where you are going wrong. You are thinking that (or at least acting like) God did not know what would happen. Maybe Saul would have said yes, maybe Saul would have said no. Hmm, God really hopes he will say yes, but He is not sure. But maybe God would have a plan B and a plan C. Maybe by the time plan Z fails, God would have had to give up on Saul.
NO! God knew exactly what He was doing, and he knew exactly where Saul was (both physically and spiritually) and He revealed Himself in a way that would bring about the desired outcome. And then Saul chose to follow God. Just as God intended.
So when you suggest "that would mean God forces people to do things!" - you are not understanding how God operates.
Saul had no choice in the matter, none. The Pharaoh of Egypt had no choice in the matter as well, God was going to harden his heart no matter what. I know free will is real but there are times when God intervenes. Tell me , how did Saul have a choice? What were his options? Crawl home blind?
If you were to read scripture as a first-century Jew, you would know that salvation was only for the Jews. So when you heard it was now for the whole world, you would begin to think it is now global as promised to Abraham. That is, it would now include gentiles. But just as in Jewry, most were not saved. So it is with the gentiles, that most remain lost. It means Abraham's seed are now found everywhere instead of just among the Jews.
Saul had no choice in the matter, none. The Pharaoh of Egypt had no choice in the matter as well, God was going to harden his heart no matter what. I know free will is real but there are times when God intervenes. Tell me , how did Saul have a choice? What were his options? Crawl home blind?
I get what you are saying and I pretty much agree with you in sentiment, it's just a question of terminology.
When we say things like "he had no choice", what we really mean is "all the other choices were untenable".
Saul had no choice in the matter, none. The Pharaoh of Egypt had no choice in the matter as well, God was going to harden his heart no matter what. I know free will is real but there are times when God intervenes. Tell me , how did Saul have a choice? What were his options? Crawl home blind?
Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman
I get what you are saying and I pretty much agree with you in sentiment, it's just a question of terminology.
When we say things like "he had no choice", what we really mean is "all the other choices were untenable".
Instead of "untenable," I prefer "make no sense" because after my encounter my atheism "made no sense" whatsoever. I still had and do have a "choice."
"That in the name of Jesus every knee should bow (ινα εν τω ονοματ Ιησου παν γονυ καμψη).
First aorist active subjunctive of καμπτω, old verb, to bend, to bow, in purpose clause with ινα.
Not perfunctory genuflections whenever the name of Jesus is mentioned, but universal acknowledgment of the majesty and power of Jesus who carries his human name and nature to heaven. This universal homage to Jesus is seen in Romans 8:22; Ephesians 1:20-22 and in particular Revelation 5:13.
Under the earth (καταχθονιων). Homeric adjective for departed souls, subterranean, simply the dead. ~A.T. Robertson
Come on people, go do something GOOD, for the proclamations of knowing all, are not.
Stop assuming yourselves to be God-like. To be God-like, you have to shine, like a beacon, to all humanity.
Why do you assume that people posting on these forums do not do good IRL?
This is a discussion forum where people from very different backgrounds and views come to discuss various things and there will be differences of opinions and perspectives
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Saul absolutely had a choice, it's just that in that scenario, there is no way he would choose against God.
. Jonah had a choice, yet God still knew what circumstances to bring for the desired outcome.
