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When we come into the knowledge of the grace of God
we understand that's always been there,
we just couldn't comprehend it being so because we lived
out of an alienated carnal mind
(that depicted a god that needed appeasing) that denied it from us.
Oh my God...you did not just say that.
There is a block in many people's minds that will not permit this understanding.
It is a difficult thing once indoctrinated from youth to believe God did not need
appeasing ...this Magnificent Spirit that Creates and maintains galaxies and other Universes
and dimensions, infinite and eternal in a space where there is no space or time ...
never needed or wanted blood....ever...never needed the virgin thrown into the volcano.
Man made the whole scenario up...we were never blocked from Grace...we ourselves
drifted so far away from our Home...and this God kept sending us breadcrumbs
to find our way back.
But Man loves to blame and not take responsibility....that he would rather be caught in this Dream
Illusion than chose Heaven.
Maybe I went off on a tangent...it's all your fault pcamps.
Releasing us from the curse of the Law did not involve paying a penalty, but of discrediting Law as basis for judgement. It is not the strictures of the Law that determine our community, but the condition of the heart.
When we come into the knowledge of the grace of God we understand that's always been there, we just couldn't comprehend it being so because we lived out of an alienated carnal mind(that depicted a god that needed appeasing) that denied it from us.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn
Oh my God...you did not just say that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps
Yes I did Miss H. There's nothing new under the sun, it just takes the old passing away to see it.
for the sun stopped shining. And the curtain of the temple was torn in two. Luke 23:45
More and more people are seeing it, pcamps, as they query their hearts instead of the words "written in ink" that we are warned kill the spirit. Miss H. knows intuitively what is true and follows it without regard to books written by men.
Thespirit of agape love has been successfully squelched under the oppressive dogma of the "precepts and doctrines of men" for far too long. More and more people are listening to the Comforter and following what God has "written in our hearts" instead of the dogma men have "written in ink."
.... Jesus paid the ransom in order to free humanity from the curse of the law
your choice is to not believe the truth .... however God said it, thus those with the Spirit believes.
Matthew 20:28
just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve,
and to give His life as a ransom for many."
Galatians 3:13
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming acurse for us—
for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a treeâ€â€”
so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles,
so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.
Twin, there are several descriptions of the RESULT of "atonement" which, if takern as descriptions of the PROCESS are simply contradictory. Your choice of belief in a particularprocess makes God out to be a monster to any civilized apprehension. I don't buy that as PROCESS.
your choice is to not believe the truth .... however God said it, thus those with the Spirit believes.
Matthew 20:28
just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve,
and to give His life as a ransom for many."
Galatians 3:13
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming acurse for us—
for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”—
so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles,
so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift
Twin, there are several descriptions of the RESULT of "atonement" which, if takern as descriptions of the PROCESS are simply contradictory. Your choice of belief in a particularprocess makes God out to be a monster to any civilized apprehension. I don't buy that as PROCESS.
"Forthemessageofthecross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God."
"The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are spiritually discerned."
The rejection of God's Word is openly seen ... only those who fooled themselves think they are rejecting "my interpretation" when making the commentary ... " God out to be a monster to any civilized apprehension." \ words "written in ink".
During Jesus' ministry He offered to establish the kingdom of heaven on earth at that time if the Jews accepted Him as the Messiah. They didn't and the kingdom was postponed until His second advent. But His primary purpose and reason for coming into the world was to die for the sins of the world so that whoever believes in Him can have eternal life.
Nope...You're wrong...Mental gymnastics...There is nothing that says that the kingdom was postponed until a second advent...In fact there is nothing in the Tanakh that even alludes to that, let alone states it outright...
The ransom was paid to God's righteousness. Man owes God perfect righteousness. Sin makes perfect righteousness impossible and therefore man cannot meet God's requirement of perfect righteousness. Therefore, one of the 'Persons' of the trinity, the pre-incarnate Jesus agreed to enter into the human race via the virgin birth and therefore free from the penalty of Adam's sin. Living a perfect life free from sin He was qualified to go to the cross, and as our substitute pay the penalty for our sins.
God's righteousness demanded a penalty for sin. God's love provided the solution to man's sin problem. God did what man couldn't. He made it possible for fallen man to be right with Him by accepting His grace plan of salvation in his behalf.
There's nothing convoluted or self-contradictory about it. Motivated by His love, God in grace provided the means of salvation from the condemnation brought about as the result of sin. All anyone has to do is to trust in the finished redemptive work of Christ on the cross in his behalf.
If you in your rebellion against God's word will not believe the writers of the Bible, chosen by God to receive and communicate His word, that's your concern. As for me, I believe what God has said.
I totally believe in G-d's word that is Torah...
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