Example of a Dead Church (Lutheran, zealous, pray, disciples)
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Zhatsman :"Jesus said LOVE GOD and LOVE OUR NEIGHBOR..NOTHING said about OBEYING??"
Quote:
Originally Posted by john233
Oh he does. As does the rest of the Bible
Easy to say. Can you give Ch and v? Not OT, please. Christian apologists constantly tell us that Jesus established a new covenant where none of that Old Stuff counted unless he endorsed it.
Then why didn't Jesus say the TWO greatest commandments were OBEY GOD and have FAITH?
Instead Jesus said LOVE GOD and LOVE OUR NEIGHBOR..NOTHING said about OBEYING??
Good intent but not all true
For sure without love Christ cannot even be present let alone living within the hearts of those who profess His name. That being said His Father did not say that His people perish for lack of love but for lack of knowledge. So what knowledge are they missing out on? Answer: knowledge of how to spiritually apply the law to our lives and to His Word. For this reason Jesus said those who learn the truth of the law and teach it to others will be called great in the kingdom while those who fail at this will be "least in the kingdom".
Mattt.5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
What is so revealing that cannot help but be noticed about the above is.....
#1, the above comments are found immediately after the sermon on the mount comments that are about love and then go on to include the penalty for anger or hatred without a just cause. Persecutors of gays need to take note of the latter.
#2 This requires us to do some deep thinking and searching of the scriptures because as it currently is, there is nothing to teach or learn about a list of simple do's and do not do's as plainly stated as they already are.
This is where and how we are to learn how to apply spiritual reality first to the Law, and then the two together applied to His Word (especially the laws for determining the truth that if followed correctly ends all doctrinal disputes) and to our lives that the sum result of removes what needs to be eradicated from us that in turn allows our Father to complete His "third day" perfection in us
For sure without love Christ cannot even be present let alone living within the hearts of those who profess His name. That being said His Father did not say that His people perish for lack of love but for lack of knowledge. So what knowledge are they missing out on? Answer: knowledge of how to spiritually apply the law to our lives and to His Word. For this reason Jesus said those who learn the truth of the law and teach it to others will be called great in the kingdom while those who fail at this will be "least in the kingdom".
Mattt.5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
What is so revealing that cannot help but be noticed about the above is.....
#1, the above comments are found immediately after the sermon on the mount comments that are about love and then go on to include the penalty for anger or hatred without a just cause. Persecutors of gays need to take note of the latter.
#2 This requires us to do some deep thinking and searching of the scriptures because as it currently is, there is nothing to teach or learn about a list of simple do's and do not do's as plainly stated as they already are.
This is where and how we are to learn how to apply spiritual reality first to the Law, and then the two together applied to His Word (especially the laws for determining the truth that if followed correctly ends all doctrinal disputes) and to our lives that the sum result of removes what needs to be eradicated from us that in turn allows our Father to complete His "third day" perfection in us
This is probably a waste of time because I can produce a kneejerk dismissal of the problem on my own..but does it not occur to you or bother you that only Matthew has this supposed saying, here at the Serrmon, which does not appear in Mark or John and only in truncated form in Luke with the remainder of the material spread through 6,11,12, 19 ?
And the passage in Luke is during the teachings in Peraea.
Luke 16. 17 It is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for the least stroke of a pen to drop out of the Law.
Matthew 5. 17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
Doesn't it occur to you that Luke and Matthew both got a passage from a common text (and Luke on other examples is more probably the original form) and Matthew elaborated it and changed the meaning? I don't doubt the meaning is puzzling but the point is that Matthew amended the original passage heavily and there is no good reason to believe that this was an original saying of Jesus at all.
Zhatsman :"Jesus said LOVE GOD and LOVE OUR NEIGHBOR..NOTHING said about OBEYING??"
Easy to say. Can you give Ch and v? Not OT, please. Christian apologists constantly tell us that Jesus established a new covenant where none of that Old Stuff counted unless he endorsed it.
Dear ARE,
Christian apologist speak for the church built on Petros/sand, and Paul/false prophet, which is the "flock doomed for slaughter" (Zechariah 11:7), and established by the beast with two horns like a lamb, Constantine, to deceive those "who dwell on the earth" (Rev 13). Based on their unknown author of Hebrews, and the false prophet Paul (2 cor 3), their "covenant of death" (Isaiah 28:18) is in effect, whereas Isaiah 28 goes on to say that their covenant with death will be canceled. You will know when "New covenant" of Jeremiah 31 will be in effect when no one has to teach his neighbor to "Know the Lord". (Jer 31:340
Is 28:18 "Your covenant with death will be canceled, And your pact with Sheol will not stand; When the overwhelming scourge passes through, Then you become its trampling place.
This is probably a waste of time because I can produce a kneejerk dismissal of the problem on my own..but does it not occur to you or bother you that only Matthew has this supposed saying, here at the Serrmon, which does not appear in Mark or John and only in truncated form in Luke with the remainder of the material spread through 6,11,12, 19 ?
And the passage in Luke is during the teachings in Peraea.
Luke 16. 17 It is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for the least stroke of a pen to drop out of the Law.
Matthew 5. 17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
Doesn't it occur to you that Luke and Matthew both got a passage from a common text (and Luke on other examples is more probably the original form) and Matthew elaborated it and changed the meaning? I don't doubt the meaning is puzzling but the point is that Matthew amended the original passage heavily and there is no good reason to believe that this was an original saying of Jesus at all.
Matthew is an eyewitness and all of the Bible is inspired unless you do not accept the simple fact that red letter words are no more in value than black print is for when it comes to the edification of God's children.
Matthew is an eyewitness and all of the Bible is inspired unless you do not accept the simple fact that red letter words are no more in value than black print is for when it comes to the edification of God's children.
Dear live,
Actually Matthew would be an eyewitness, the book of Matthew would be a book supposedly without additions and subtractions, and done fully by Matthew. Evidence seems to dispute that the bible is without additions and subtractions. As for Luke, no one knows who Luke is, probably an associate of the false prophet Paul. As for Mark, he was probably an associate with the "worthless shepherd" Peter (Zech 11:17). As for what will happen to Peter, Yeshua told Peter, the "first shall be last and the last shall be first".(Mt 19:27) As Peter and his brother Andrew, according to Mt 4:17, were the "first" chosen when Yeshua began to preach "Repent; for the kingdom of heaven is at hand", then that puts Peter at the bottom of the pile, and as Matthew, the tax collector, who was chosen last, he would be at the top of the pile.
Matthew is an eyewitness and all of the Bible is inspired unless you do not accept the simple fact that red letter words are no more in value than black print is for when it comes to the edification of God's children.
Apart from faith based denial of very real doubts about whether the Gospels can possibly be eyewitness, i have no idea what you mean. If the Gospel text doesn't stack up as credible eyewitness material then it doesn't matter what colour you print it in.
Zhatsman :"Jesus said LOVE GOD and LOVE OUR NEIGHBOR..NOTHING said about OBEYING??"
Easy to say. Can you give Ch and v? Not OT, please. Christian apologists constantly tell us that Jesus established a new covenant where none of that Old Stuff counted unless he endorsed it.
Matthew 7:21 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Matthew 7:24 24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
Dear live,
Actually Matthew would be an eyewitness, the book of Matthew would be a book supposedly without additions and subtractions, and done fully by Matthew. Evidence seems to dispute that the bible is without additions and subtractions. As for Luke, no one knows who Luke is, probably an associate of the false prophet Paul. As for Mark, he was probably an associate with the "worthless shepherd" Peter (Zech 11:17). As for what will happen to Peter, Yeshua told Peter, the "first shall be last and the last shall be first".(Mt 19:27) As Peter and his brother Andrew, according to Mt 4:17, were the "first" chosen when Yeshua began to preach "Repent; for the kingdom of heaven is at hand", then that puts Peter at the bottom of the pile, and as Matthew, the tax collector, who was chosen last, he would be at the top of the pile.
Why do you call Paul a false prophet, or don't you think God had any input on what would become the "go to" to learn of the things of God for the next 2000 years?
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Can you give Ch and v? Not OT, please.
Christian apologists constantly tell us that Jesus established a new covenant where none of that Old Stuff counted unless he endorsed it.