Example of a Dead Church (traditions, Gospels, Buddhism, belief)
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I'd like to add one more dead church scenario for discussion. The lack of effort to restore our hebrew roots stripped by Constantine (325ad) and adopted by the early church as if following the piped Piper!!! The feasts that we're tossed ARE NOT Jewish feasts they are the LORDS FEASTS!!! The casual complacent acceptance of a pagan ruler Constantine's arrogance anti anti -semetic philosophies were incomprehensibly inherited by we lukewarmers!!! Have a nice day!
Mike!!!! Jonathan Cahn is playing all week, down here on the tube. I watched some of it because I cannot get through the audiobook.
Wrong. The Bible paints a very complete picture of Jesus and His state of mind, behaviors and attitudes. It is an unambiguous picture even unto death. It is that description of His mind (consciousness) that convinces me He is the consciousness I encounter in deep meditation. It is THAT "mind of Christ" that informs my understanding and sets the standard of truth as the Spirit of agape love (Who IS God). To answer your other post, YES . . . agape love is sufficient to evaluate everything in every situation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AREQUIPA
That also is not the point. The point is when one gets to the stage where the supposed mind of Christ that sets the standard of truth, departs from something he is supposed to have said. Do you go with the feelings you have or with what is in the Bible?
This is the problem posed in the OP with the objections to a lesbian bishop who proposes chumming up with muslims. That is is wide agape love from where I'm standing and one can either go (cautiously) with that or reject is as departing from Jesus' sayings and thus dismiss that church as 'dead'.
I'm just pointing out that one of the methods would appear to have to be wrong.
The absolute standard of truth is the Spirit of agape love (Who IS God). This means that anything that contradicts or is inconsistent with the Spirit of agape love can NOT be from God or Jesus, period, no matter what any book says. Men had agendas, the lying scribes ensconced them in the writings, the committees expunged or added them, in the sausage-making provenance of the Bible. The "mind of Christ" as demonstrated unambiguously as the Spirit of agape love, is the absolute filter for God's truth.
Then you are simply talking about a human morality which picks and chooses what it likes from the Bible and calls it Christianity. I will at least concede that it is far better than the hate -filled divisiveness that so regularly seems to come from Bible -literalist fundamentalism. I will also argue that I am not in the least persuaded that it is very much more than faith -based self delusion.
All churches have at some point in time members in need of a miracle. God does not change other than extending mercy in place of judgment. Consequently, the same God who worked miracles through OT prophets, Jesus, and NT Apostles and their associates who were all in one accord with each other and the truth of God, will work miracles today through others who are on the right path of becoming in one accord with Him in same manner the others were. If churches are not witnessing God working miracles for members in need is for a reason that is causing God to turn His back on them
If a church never has miracles it is not because God did not hear their prayers, after all the scriptures tell us God heard the prayers of the Jews in bondage to Egypt but until a man named Moses who was obedient to God and raised up by God to lead His people out of bondage was when God finally appeared strong on behalf of the Jews.
So how about you, are you witnessing miracles and at your own expense teaching others what you have leaned at great cost? This is what all of those listed above who witnessed miracles and taught others did at great personal cost as do I and the few others whom I am associated with
So tell me hotshot, what are you good for and what do you contribute to the Body of Christ that is beneficial to them unlike the judgment you pass and stones you have become proficient at throwing at others.......... something the church already has far to many of who are always part of the problem but never part of the solution
I wait with baited breath
And your fingers out of the ears I hope.
Ok, here it is. The truth matters and the truth - if evidence and reason (not faith -based apologetics and the count- the- hits -ignore- the- misses method of bias -confirmation that prayer works and miracles happen) counts for anything - is that religions are false and Jesus was just a man.
If the truth is of value, then what I am contributing in a very small way is of more value than all the prayers and witnessing you ever did.
Now you appear to be playing the 'We need it, true or not', card. I have an axiom on this: 'You cannot buy the truth with free soup'. This means that doing good in the community is all very fine, but it doesn't validate religion in the least. It may be that religion provides a focus and therapeutic advantage. It might be that the hat wearing and hymn singing has its uses. Even humanist U/U churches use the method.
But they can certainly do without the Dogma and built in hate and division of organized religion. And that seems to be what this Swedish bishop is doing without. I would not see much more of a difference between her church and some of the more sortagod - believing U/U churches other than having a rather funnier hat.
Because what you are doing is applying your own moral values to a book that you then hold up as being the source of moral values. If you are not doing that, then of what particular value is the book at all. over any other book?
I'd like to add one more dead church scenario for discussion. The lack of effort to restore our hebrew roots stripped by Constantine (325ad) and adopted by the early church as if following the piped Piper!!! The feasts that we're tossed ARE NOT Jewish feasts they are the LORDS FEASTS!!! The casual complacent acceptance of a pagan ruler Constantine's arrogance anti anti -semetic philosophies were incomprehensibly inherited by we lukewarmers!!! Have a nice day!
I certainly agree that Pauline Christianity was given something of a makeover by Constantine, though I suspect that a lot of Papal clutter came about through the Bishop of Rome moving into the vacated Emperor's suits and into his shoes - literally.
But then I argue that Pauline Christianity itself was a makeover of what the apostles had taught him. And thus, a return to the apostolic church would probably require you to become more of an observing Jew than you would be comfortable with.
Probably better to leave Christianity as it is than try to get back to the basics. You might not like them very much.
All churches have at some point in time members in need of a miracle. God does not change other than extending mercy in place of judgment. Consequently, the same God who worked miracles through OT prophets, Jesus, and NT Apostles and their associates who were all in one accord with each other and the truth of God, will work miracles today through others who are on the right path of becoming in one accord with Him in same manner the others were. If churches are not witnessing God working miracles for members in need is for a reason that is causing God to turn His back on them.
The absolute standard of truth is the Spirit of agape love (Who IS God). This means that anything that contradicts or is inconsistent with the Spirit of agape love can NOT be from God or Jesus, period, no matter what any book says. Men had agendas, the lying scribes ensconced them in the writings, the committees expunged or added them, in the sausage-making provenance of the Bible. The "mind of Christ" as demonstrated unambiguously as the Spirit of agape love, is the absolute filter for God's truth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AREQUIPA
Then you are simply talking about a human morality which picks and chooses what it likes from the Bible and calls it Christianity. I will at least concede that it is far better than the hate -filled divisiveness that so regularly seems to come from Bible -literalist fundamentalism. I will also argue that I am not in the least persuaded that it is very much more than faith -based self delusion.
Stop saying "chooses what it likes" because that implies caprice. There is no caprice. There is an absolute standard for God's truth and that is the Spirit of agape love (Who IS God). There is no capricious "choosing what it likes" about it, Arq.
Ok, here it is. The truth matters and the truth - if evidence and reason (not faith -based apologetics and the count- the- hits -ignore- the- misses method of bias -confirmation that prayer works and miracles happen) counts for anything - is that religions are false and Jesus was just a man.
If the truth is of value, then what I am contributing in a very small way is of more value than all the prayers and witnessing you ever did.
The big picture that you miss by beiing mired in the physicality of existence, Arq, is that the only reality that matters to God and our ultimate fate is what is called "spiritual" (but for you I will rename it, "cognitive"). What is in our minds, and the minds of the entire human race are the important players (pieces) in this game of life. The only connection we have with God is in our minds and the His influence only operates through our minds. The legend of Jesus is an ancient one describing how our species would come to understand God in our minds over time. The specific personas differed and the sophistication of the cognitions improved as we evolved. The Christ version is the most sophisticated of them all and it did indeed achieve over millennia the spiritual (read: cognitive) impacts on our species' understanding of God prophesied about. Understand that since everything is only about the evolution of what is in our minds, prophecy is born of what is in our minds, and God does influence that. All the carnal concern over physical historicity is completely misguided. When we are told to interpret things spiritually, that is exactly what we are supposed to do. Physicality and physical, carnal concerns are totally irrelevant. There can be no disputing the impact that Christ has had on human cognition and thinking about God, Arq. He has in so many ways been the Messiah, the Way, the Truth and the Light. Heck even Kings shut their mouths at Him and derived their Divine Right of Kings from His power among the people.
I certainly agree that Pauline Christianity was given something of a makeover by Constantine, though I suspect that a lot of Papal clutter came about through the Bishop of Rome moving into the vacated Emperor's suits and into his shoes - literally.
But then I argue that Pauline Christianity itself was a makeover of what the apostles had taught him. And thus, a return to the apostolic church would probably require you to become more of an observing Jew than you would be comfortable with.
Probably better to leave Christianity as it is than try to get back to the basics. You might not like them very much.
"Pauline Christianity" is "apostolic Christianity". What he taught is in complete agreement with what Christ lived and taught. Most people just don't understand him. As Peter warned us in 2 Peter 3:
"15 And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, 16 as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. 17 You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability."
Paul himself even says that the things he teaches agree with the teachings of Christ, so the key is learning his terminology and understanding his perspective. The vast majority of people have no idea what he is really saying in his letters unfortunately.
1 Timothy 6:
"3 If anyone teaches a different doctrine and does not agree with the sound[b] words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teaching that accords with godliness, 4 he is puffed up with conceit and understands nothing."
I don't have the time to go through it all on this forum but there are some teachings I could recommend on Paul's epistles which can help to clarify things and get one pointed in the right direction.
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Jonathan Cahn is playing all week, down here on the tube. 
