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Hi Twin.spin, thank you for your response. I agree that everything has a beginning except for God. All is out of God and the problem that I was trying to point out with the word "eternal" that people like to use is that this word means without beginning or end. The only thing that is without beginning or end is God, who is eternal. Everlasting is not the same as eternal because as you have shared, something can be created, and have a beginning and then last forever. It seems that would be correct to say that many believe in everlasting hell, not eternal hell. The thing is, the wages of sin is said to be death-never everlasting hell or eternal hell. The reason why we know that death is not the end, all of creation is to be delivered (Romans 8) and we know that death itself is to be abolished, made of no effect. Again, I believe that many will experience God's wrath, punishment, corrections, however there is a promise that all are to be reunited in Jesus Christ. Jesus did not pay the penalty of everlasting hell or of annihilation. The penalty was death and He overcame death, the last enemy. Death in all of its forms will be made of no effect. God bless.
And there shall be no more death! No more death/ thanatos in all its forms!
"He will wipe every tear from their eyes. Death shall be no more; nor sorrow, nor wail of woe, nor pain; for the first things have passed away. Then He who was seated on the throne said, "I am re-creating all things"
And there shall be no more death! No more death/ thanatos in all its forms!
"He will wipe every tear from their eyes. Death shall be no more; nor sorrow, nor wail of woe, nor pain; for the first things have passed away. Then He who was seated on the throne said, "I am re-creating all things"
Hi there Shana, this issue of the man-made hell issue comes down to whether we are to give more weight to human freedom to turn away from God's love, or to the power of God's love to win all people freely to God. Any victory of God that violates human freedom is not a victory of love but of coercion. "But it is possible to conceive of a love so powerful that ultimately no one will be able to resist free and grateful surrender."
The early theologian and writer of over 7000 books, Origen, declares that "the idea that God and Satan would rule over respective kingdoms for all eternity is dualism."
He also declares...
Quote:
The final redeemed version of creation cannot include a hell or kingdom of Satan. In the end, all of creation must be restored to God.
The radical English theologian of the 1960's, John A. T. Robinson declares...
Quote:
May we not imagine a love so strong that ultimately no one will be able to restrain himself from free and grateful surrender?
And...
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In a universe of love there can be no heaven which tolerates a chamber of horrors.
"Getting back to my analogy of a parent. If I truly love my children, then every thing I do to (and for) them will be for their betterment, not simply to satisfy my own selfish desire for justice. So if I spank my children, as painful as it is to them, it must be done with a desire to better them in some way. If not, then I cannot say that I have truly loved them. 1 Corinthians 13 is a beautiful description of how we are to manifest love.
Love is patient and kind. Love knows neither envy nor jealousy. Love is not forward and self-assertive, nor boastful and conceited. She does not behave unbecomingly, nor seek to aggrandize herself, nor blaze out in passionate anger, nor brood over wrongs. She finds no pleasure in injustice done to others, but joyfully sides with the truth. She knows how to be silent. She is full of trust, full of hope, full of patient endurance. (1 Cor. 4-7, Weymouth NT)
So let me ask you then, what is the purpose of “eternal” punishment? If God's punishment never ends, then what purpose does it hold for the offender? What betterment to the sinner? The answer is none. And if there is no intent on correcting the behavior of the offender, the only purpose it could serve would be to either satisfy God's own sense of justice or to teach the poor sinner an “eternal” lesson. And in either case, this would be a selfish act because he would be thinking solely of himself. Certainly God would not have the best interest of the sinner at heart if His punishments continued without end. And isn't this what love is—being concerned for the welfare of another? The very essence of love is the idea that it is purely unselfish—it thinks not of itself (1 Cor. 13:8). If God acts in the manner prescribed by orthodox Christianity, how then can this be love? The idea of “eternal” hell shows that we believe in a god who acts simply to satisfy his own need for justice and revenge. Therefore, this is an act that cannot be considered love because it does not result in the betterment of the sinner. And if this is the case, then God is not love, at least to the great majority of those He torments “eternally.” Ken Eckerty
God bless.
"Getting back to my analogy of a parent. If I truly love my children, then every thing I do to (and for) them will be for their betterment, not simply to satisfy my own selfish desire for justice. So if I spank my children, as painful as it is to them, it must be done with a desire to better them in some way. If not, then I cannot say that I have truly loved them. 1 Corinthians 13 is a beautiful description of how we are to manifest love.
Love is patient and kind. Love knows neither envy nor jealousy. Love is not forward and self-assertive, nor boastful and conceited. She does not behave unbecomingly, nor seek to aggrandize herself, nor blaze out in passionate anger, nor brood over wrongs. She finds no pleasure in injustice done to others, but joyfully sides with the truth. She knows how to be silent. She is full of trust, full of hope, full of patient endurance. (1 Cor. 4-7, Weymouth NT)
So let me ask you then, what is the purpose of “eternal†punishment? If God's punishment never ends, then what purpose does it hold for the offender? What betterment to the sinner? The answer is none. And if there is no intent on correcting the behavior of the offender, the only purpose it could serve would be to either satisfy God's own sense of justice or to teach the poor sinner an “eternal†lesson. And in either case, this would be a selfish act because he would be thinking solely of himself. Certainly God would not have the best interest of the sinner at heart if His punishments continued without end. And isn't this what love is—being concerned for the welfare of another? The very essence of love is the idea that it is purely unselfish—it thinks not of itself (1 Cor. 13:8). If God acts in the manner prescribed by orthodox Christianity, how then can this be love? The idea of “eternal†hell shows that we believe in a god who acts simply to satisfy his own need for justice and revenge. Therefore, this is an act that cannot be considered love because it does not result in the betterment of the sinner. And if this is the case, then God is not love, at least to the great majority of those He torments “eternally.†Ken Eckerty
God bless.
Great post Shana. I just can`t understand how some hold God to a lesser standard than they do other human beings. God is the author of love. He has a purpose for his creation, sons and daughters.
I just can`t understand how some hold God to a lesser standard than they do other human beings. God is the author of love. He has a purpose for his creation, sons and daughters.
The Bible is very clear in Revelation 20:11-15 that all the unsaved wicked who have clearly rejected Christ will be resurrected to be brought before the Great White Throne Judgment and will be judged according to their works which are found in the books mentioned in verse 12. The conclusion is that because their names are not found in the Lamb's Book of Life that they are cast alive in the lake of fire which is Gehenna and it burns with fire and brimstone. Revelation 21:8 also gives a long list of the wicked that will have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone. If God is a holy God and cannot stand sin then He clearly will have to punish sinners who have rejected Him. God is a God of love but He is also a God of justice.
The Bible is very clear in Revelation 20:11-15 that all the unsaved wicked who have clearly rejected Christ will be resurrected to be brought before the Great White Throne Judgment and will be judged according to their works which are found in the books mentioned in verse 12. The conclusion is that because their names are not found in the Lamb's Book of Life that they are cast alive in the lake of fire which is Gehenna and it burns with fire and brimstone. Revelation 21:8 also gives a long list of the wicked that will have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone. If God is a holy God and cannot stand sin then He clearly will have to punish sinners who have rejected Him. God is a God of love but He is also a God of justice.
AMEN! Yes the Bible is VERY clear about the people who are going to hell for eternity, no one gets to change their mind when they get there. But be ready to hear Scripture twisted as people will say the opposite of what the Bible teaches about this.
The Bible is very clear in Revelation 20:11-15 that all the unsaved wicked who have clearly rejected Christ will be resurrected to be brought before the Great White Throne Judgment and will be judged according to their works which are found in the books mentioned in verse 12. The conclusion is that because their names are not found in the Lamb's Book of Life that they are cast alive in the lake of fire which is Gehenna and it burns with fire and brimstone. Revelation 21:8 also gives a long list of the wicked that will have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone. If God is a holy God and cannot stand sin then He clearly will have to punish sinners who have rejected Him. God is a God of love but He is also a God of justice.
I guess you would torture children night and day forever and ever. Thank God we have his justice and not man`s. Obviously you have never done any serious bible study and have no clue what the lake of fire is. Did God forgive the people who crucified Jesus?
I guess you would torture children night and day forever and ever. Thank God we have his justice and not man`s. Obviously you have never done any serious bible study and have no clue what the lake of fire is. Did God forgive the people who crucified Jesus?
What appears to be the obvious is that if serious bible study was the only ingredient to the truth, then incorrect conclusions would be avoidable and there wouldn't be so many false teachers and false religions.
The problem isn't with the student, it's with the teacher. Jesus taught about the God's justice, Paul wrote about the justice of Jesus\God
Luke 18:8 I tell you, he will see that they get justice, and quickly. However, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?"
Acts 17:31
For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed.
Romans 3:26
he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.
A truthful teacher teaches that people will get justice. Those who have faith will be declared justified (holy) and those who don't will be declared unholy. This same teacher will teach it is only those who are declared justified will be considered children of God, and those who are not will be children of the evil one.
If justice means all goes to heaven, that would not make justice ... just. Thereby faith would be of no value.
What say you... when Jesus comes again, will he find faith? If faith = justification, then the answer would be little to even less.
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God bless.
Hell is real
