Why did Jesus go to a Baptist to be Baptized? (belief, rituals)

[lucknow]

As it has already been states in the thread Jesus said it himself, why it was necessary to be baptized by John. "To fullfill all righteousness". The question is however, What righteousness was Jesus referring to?

Jesus fills three offices, Prophet, Priest and King. All Jewish priests attained that office in their 30th year. Part of the rituals that pertained to that ordination was the ritual cleansing in water or baptism. Jesus needed to be baptized in his 30th year to fullfill all righteousness according to the Law regarding His ordination as the Priest of His people.

This was necessary even though Jesus was not a priest in the order of Levi. Jesus was of the tribe of Judah and therefore could not fill a Levitical office. As we are taught in the bible Jesus was a priest of the order of Melchizedek. This order is superior to the Levitical order as it was a universal preisthood and not just for the children of Israel.

[twin.spin]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Joe Bob

To my question:So your saying no one can receive the Holy Spirit until they have "repented and been baptized"? Am I understanding you correctly?

You answered the following:

Originally Posted by twin.spin
Scriptures teach that the gift of the Holy Spirit is the saving faith
Scriptures teach without faith it is impossible to please God
Scriptures teach that God choses those who will have faith ... humans chose to reject
Scriptures teach that those who reject the Holy Spirit are eternally damned

James 2:5
Listen, my dear brothers: Has not God chosen those who are poor in the eyes of the world to be rich in faith and to inherit the kingdom he promised those who love him?

I don't think you answered the question directly. I can make an assumption based on your answer but I would rather you answer the question directly for yourself. But unless you say otherwise we can agree your answer to my original question is "Yes". Please correct me if I have misunderstood you on this.

I do not mean to be evasive, but I have to be guarded when when answering how a person comes to faith. There are too many here that hold to the Decision Theology (make a decision for Christ).

Either a person can have the ability to "make a decision" is the truth or "Ephesians 2:8
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God".

So when I read something that seems to be focused on oneself for coming to faith, I attempt to answer in such a way the refutes the false teaching of decision theology giving God the credit for faith coming to the individual while present the truth that humans are held accountable for rejecting.

Originally Posted by Jimmy Joe Bob

And to my question of:Also would you say that when we receive the Holy Spirit that is evidence we are saved or Have repented and completed all that is necessary for salvation at that point?

You gave the direct answer of "Yes". Thank you for that one.

So you are claiming that only those already saved (completed all requirements for salvation) can receive the Holy Spirit? And the receiving of the Holy Spirit is proof of one's salvation!

If understood that "we recieve" is because "we" had nothing to do it via our own reasoning or some special qualities.

[the_human_being]

One might think that Jesus may have sought John out in part because the two were cousins. Apparently John knew who Christ was because he leapt in his mother's belly upon the ocassion of Mary's visit while both she and John's mother were carrying them. It is also true that it had already been foretold that one would come crying in the wilderness making way for the Christ. Both knew this had been foretold.

[Jimmy Joe Bob]

Originally Posted by twin.spin

I do not mean to be evasive, but I have to be guarded when when answering how a person comes to faith. There are too many here that hold to the Decision Theology (make a decision for Christ).

Either a person can have the ability to "make a decision" is the truth or "Ephesians 2:8
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God".

So when I read something that seems to be focused on oneself for coming to faith, I attempt to answer in such a way the refutes the false teaching of decision theology giving God the credit for faith coming to the individual while present the truth that humans are held accountable for rejecting.




If understood that "we recieve" is because "we" had nothing to do it via our own reasoning or some special qualities.

Well let's not change the subject here. I am trying to get your answer to a very simple question that does not address what you brought up. Regardless of how it comes about what is the answer to my first question?

[twin.spin]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Joe Bob

Well let's not change the subject here. I am trying to get your answer to a very simple question that does not address what you brought up. Regardless of how it comes about what is the answer to my first question?
So your saying no one can receive the Holy Spirit until they have "repented and been baptized"? Am I understanding you correctly?

The Holy Spirit does not come upon the person who rejects (blasphemes) him. Mark 3:29

Simply the Holy Spirit comes upon the person who according to scriptures

• repents and makes confession of faith
• repents, makes confession of faith and is baptized
• is baptized
• knows the scriptures from infancy 2 Timothy 3:15

[Jimmy Joe Bob]

Originally Posted by twin.spin

The Holy Spirit does not come upon the person who rejects (blasphemes) him. Mark 3:29

Simply the Holy Spirit comes upon the person who according to scriptures

• repents and makes confession of faith
• repents, makes confession of faith and is baptized
• is baptized
• knows the scriptures from infancy 2 Timothy 3:15

So if the Holy Spirit comes upon someone you believe all that is done? Repents, confession an baptized, etc?

So what happened in Acts 10:

44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Here the same Holy Ghost that fell on Peter and the others on the day of Pentecost has fallen on these who have not been baptized. In fact the act of them being saved and receive the Holy Ghost is why they were baptized.

46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

So why does this differ from what you think is required?

[twin.spin]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Joe Bob

So if the Holy Spirit comes upon someone you believe all that is done? Repents, confession an baptized, etc?

So what happened in Acts 10:



Here the same Holy Ghost that fell on Peter and the others on the day of Pentecost has fallen on these who have not been baptized. In fact the act of them being saved and receive the Holy Ghost is why they were baptized.

So why does this differ from what you think is required?

Read the list I wrote again: .....

repents and makes confession of faith
repents, makes confession of faith and is baptized
is baptized
knows the scriptures from infancy 2 Timothy 3:15

Then read Act 10:43

"All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”

Acts 10:44-45 has no "differs". 44-45 happens due to 43

[DRob4JC]

There is a direct answer to the question of why Jesus had to be baptized and John's role in the process. I'm surprised nobody brought these verses to light.

John 1:29-34
29 The next day he saw Jesus coming to him and said, "Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world! 30 "This is He on behalf of whom I said, `After me comes a Man who has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.' 31 "I did not recognize Him, but so that He might be manifested to Israel, I came baptizing in water." 32 John testified saying, "I have seen the Spirit descending as a dove out of heaven, and He remained upon Him. 33 "I did not recognize Him, but He who sent me to baptize in water said to me, `He upon whom you see the Spirit descending and remaining upon Him, this is the One who baptizes in the Holy Spirit.' 34 "I myself have seen, and have testified that this is the Son of God."

[twin.spin]

Originally Posted by DRob4JC

There is a direct answer to the question of why Jesus had to be baptized and John's role in the process. I'm surprised nobody brought these verses to light.

John 1:29-34
29 The next day he saw Jesus coming to him and said, "Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world! 30 "This is He on behalf of whom I said, `After me comes a Man who has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.' 31 "I did not recognize Him, but so that He might be manifested to Israel, I came baptizing in water." 32 John testified saying, "I have seen the Spirit descending as a dove out of heaven, and He remained upon Him. 33 "I did not recognize Him, but He who sent me to baptize in water said to me, `He upon whom you see the Spirit descending and remaining upon Him, this is the One who baptizes in the Holy Spirit.' 34 "I myself have seen, and have testified that this is the Son of God."

Yea.... after awhile I thought I should have.
Thanks for giving the most direct answer.

[the_human_being]

It is my personal belief that baptism is not always necessary for one to be forgiven of sins and saved. A case in point would be those who are dying and make a deathbed confession or ask God for salvation. I do believe many soldiers on the battlefields have done this as well as many others. Perhaps even the thief on the cross? We have no indication the thief ever actually confessed his sins or was ever baptised.