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If all governments are put in place by God, then it's obvious that no Christian would do anything against any country, including one's "enemies," which are also put in place by God. Therefore, a dictatorship is put in place by God, and should not be "overthrown." Neither should any communist or nazi regime. All are in place by God.
The nation of Israel (not the current Israel) lived without any leader for about 450 years, and were living as God desired them to live.
Peace,
brian
You talk like one with a simple mind. Things are more complex then you make it out to be because man is evil. Aparantly you didn't read the part about where God sometimes gives evil government because the people reject the truth. When those nations start wars, those they attack have every right to defend themselfs. When they lose,it is justified punishment for what they started. Such it was with Germany and Japan. It is written, "There is a time for war and a time to kill".
Yes Israel lived without King for a long time but not without Judges. They always had some form of government. When they wanted a King against Gods wishes, nevertheless God gave them one and Anointed who it would be. They soon payed for their desire for a King. But God kept giving them Kings, some good and some evil depending on what they deserved. And so it is today.
We have a Republic and we can pray and vote or we can pretend that we have no part in it. Fact is, you perhaps owe your very existance to the veterans who protected our right to pray and vote in a free nation. God used King David, a veteran, to preserve the nation of Israel for a season.
You talk like one with a simple mind. Things are more complex then you make it out to be because man is evil. Aparantly you didn't read the part about where God sometimes gives evil government because the people reject the truth. When those nations start wars, those they attack have every right to defend themselfs. When they lose,it is justified punishment for what they started. Such it was with Germany and Japan. It is written, "There is a time for war and a time to kill".
Yes Israel lived without King for a long time but not without Judges. They always had some form of government. When they wanted a King against Gods wishes, nevertheless God gave them one and Anointed who it would be. They soon payed for their desire for a King. But God kept giving them Kings, some good and some evil depending on what they deserved. And so it is today.
We have a Republic and we can pray and vote or we can pretend that we have no part in it. Fact is, you perhaps owe your very existance to the veterans who protected our right to pray and vote in a free nation. God used King David, a veteran, to preserve the nation of Israel for a season.
I don't "owe my life" to anyone except God. That's pretty simple, imo. And the same for you.
You didn't vote or "choose" to be born in the US, and neither did I. You didn't choose anything about your natural features (hair type, skin color, intellectual ability, etc) and neither did I. Our debt is not to man, but to God.
I don't "pretend" to not play a part. I willingly don't play a part.
That's why I don't go fight other people's wars for them. If they have a war to fight, then they can go. Apparently they don't take Jesus' teachings too seriously.
As for me, I will follow for things that make for peace. And drones and nuclear missiles don't play a part in that at all.
If we follow the example the Christ left us it is easy to understand what we should not do.....
(Matthew 22:17-22) 17*Tell us, therefore, What do you think? Is it lawful to pay head tax to Caesar or not?” 18*But Jesus, knowing their wickedness, said: “Why do YOU put me to the test, hypocrites? 19*Show me the head tax coin.” They brought him a de·nar′i·us. 20*And he said to them: “Whose image and inscription is this?” 21*They said: “Caesar’s.” Then he said to them: “Pay back, therefore, Caesar’s things to Caesar, but God’s things to God.” 22*Well, when they heard [that], they marveled, and leaving him they went off.
We pay our taxes, yet.....
(John 6:15) 15*Therefore Jesus, knowing they were about to come and seize him to make him king, withdrew again into the mountain all alone.
He would have NO part of the earthly governmental structure as it all belongs to Satan...other wise how could Satan have offered him those Kingdoms were they not his to give. Jesus would have surely called his hand on that matter.
(John 14:29-31) .*.*.. 30*I shall not speak much with YOU anymore, for the ruler of the world is coming. And he has no hold on me, 31*but, in order for the world to know that I love the Father, even as the Father has given me commandment [to do], so I am doing. Get up, let us go from here.
(1 John 5:19) 19*We know we originate with God, but the whole world is lying in the [power of the] wicked one.
Clearly Jesus identified the ruler of this world, or this system of things, as Satan the Devil, so all the worldly Governments are belong to him.
His Kingdom was foretold long ago and one of the best passages to explain that is in Daniel 2:44
(Daniel 2:44) “And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite;
I think every citizen of age, Christian or otherwise should vote..Our vote is our individual voice in this democracy.
Sometimes I think it would be great if we truly lived in a democracy but it would be very hard to have everyone vote on every thing. I think that's why the founding fathers chose to have a Representative form of Government rather than a pure democracy. But you right it is important to vote for the best "Representatives" in the various government offices who make the decisions and cast the votes in our stead.
I don't "owe my life" to anyone except God. That's pretty simple, imo. And the same for you.
You didn't vote or "choose" to be born in the US, and neither did I. You didn't choose anything about your natural features (hair type, skin color, intellectual ability, etc) and neither did I. Our debt is not to man, but to God.
I don't "pretend" to not play a part. I willingly don't play a part.
That's why I don't go fight other people's wars for them. If they have a war to fight, then they can go. Apparently they don't take Jesus' teachings too seriously.
As for me, I will follow for things that make for peace. And drones and nuclear missiles don't play a part in that at all.
Peace,
brian
Jesus did not come to do away with government in this age but to reform them through courageous men who can stand up for truth. John the Babtist was such a man who spoke against the evils of the government of His day.
LK 3:12-14 "Then came also publicans/[tax collectors] to be baptized, and said unto him, Master, what shall we do? And he said unto them, Exact no more than that which is appointed you. And the soldiers likewise demanded of him, saying, And what shall we do? And he said unto them, Do violence to no man, neither accuse any falsely; and be content with your wages."
HEB 11:32-34 "And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets: Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions. Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens."
God deals differant jugements for change according to the needs of reform and how to obtain it.
PS 144:1 "Blessed be the Lord my strength which teaches my hands to war, and my fingers to fight:"
Sometimes it is to war and sometimes to reform within. I hope the latter for us, but for that we must be involved. In our case as a nation, to make change, it is in part by vote, by electing leaders with a sound heart. Seeing that the circumstances are all differant, it is simplistic to say that only one method is the cure. Savation is more than the forgiveness of sin but rather as it is written, "Righteousness exults a nation." When good men do nothing then evil takes over.
I don't think you are a simple minded man but in this matter I said you talk like one. As you can see or not as you prefer, the issues are far more complex and everyone is called in a differant manner to make change for the better. Some are like King David or John the Babtist and some are like John the beloved. Each play their part and all to be respected for what God called them to be. Soldier or minister
I don't expect you do agree with one word I said but I write this to others so as to strengthen their resolve in these matters.
I think every citizen of age, Christian or otherwise should vote..Our vote is our individual voice in this democracy.
"Render to Caesar that which is Caesar's" The founders, mostly all Christians, believed voting was a privelege that they incorporated into the Articles of Independence. They also believed it a responsibility of every citizen. Therefore in this country it would be a citizens duty to "render" his/her vote on election days. By not doing so a Christian would not be following Christ's directions.
Last edited by Pawporri; 10-24-2012 at 05:56 PM..
Reason: Spelling
"Render to Caesar that which is Caesar's" The founders, mostly all Christians, believed voting was a privelege that they incorporated into the Articles of Independence. They also believed it a responsibility of every citizen. Therefore in this country it would be a citizens duty to "render" his/her vote on election days. By not doing so a Christian would not be following Christ's directions.
"AMBASSADORS for Christ"...Thus Jesus’ disciples live in this present evil world as though they were foreigners, here merely as the guests of the nation where they reside, as AMBASSADORS for Christ and His coming Kingdom, here as representatives of HIS coming Kingdom, not of any of this world’s governments. As the Word of God reveals in 2 Cor. 5:17-20, "If any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; . . . Now then we are ambassadors for Christ."
Ambassadors do not take part in the politics of the governments they are residing in while representing their government. Their citizenship is in the country they represent.
A true Christian who is a part of the true Church that is preaching the true Gospel of the Kingdom of God on this earth, represents that soon coming Government of God that will be set up on this earth at the Return of Jesus Christ. Their true citizenship is now reserved for them in Heaven, not to mislead and say they are going to Heaven but that when the Kingdom of God is set up on this earth, we will take their positions as Rulers of this world under the direction and authority of the King of kings and Lord of lords -- Jesus Christ.
garya123, nobody is saying to do away with government in this age. We are just saying we will not support an evil government. Our government today is just like the one John the Baptist railed against. It does exactly what John the Baptist said not to do. And we know John came to 'set straight the path'.
God created this country, nowhere has he commanded anyone to vote. He did however see to it that LIMITS were placed on the powers of the office of President. Those limits have been broken by every office holder during my whole lifetime. Obama breaks those limits and Romney did to as a Governor. I will not put my vote or "voice" behind them as it's the same thing as giving them "God speed".
And why didn't God count my vote last time? My local paper claimed Chuck Baldwin got no votes from my precinct yet I wrote him in. The answer of course is that God allows man to play a part, He works through and with us (not just Christians).
I shall not support anyone who gives money to abortion clinics, that blood can be on your hands.
I shall not support anyone who steals through inflation, that sin can be on your hands.
I shall not support anyone who wants to destroy marriage, either by "gay rights" or "easy divorce", those sins can be on your hands.
I shall not support anyone who gives condoms to teenagers, that sin can be on your hands.
Yeah, I know nobody is perfect and we are all sinners but the above list created by Democrats and Republicans is endless and goes on and on and on. It's an evil government as far as Christians are concerned. I no longer care who wins because it doesn't matter, all I can do is serve the Lord the best I can, follow the laws the best I can, and let the earthy folks live their life up all they want WHILE THEY STILL CAN.
Other than that I'm as PRO GOVERNMENT as anyone could be.
"AMBASSADORS for Christ"...Thus Jesus’ disciples live in this present evil world as though they were foreigners, here merely as the guests of the nation where they reside, as AMBASSADORS for Christ and His coming Kingdom, here as representatives of HIS coming Kingdom, not of any of this world’s governments. As the Word of God reveals in 2 Cor. 5:17-20, "If any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; . . . Now then we are ambassadors for Christ."
Ambassadors do not take part in the politics of the governments they are residing in while representing their government. Their citizenship is in the country they represent.
A true Christian who is a part of the true Church that is preaching the true Gospel of the Kingdom of God on this earth, represents that soon coming Government of God that will be set up on this earth at the Return of Jesus Christ. Their true citizenship is now reserved for them in Heaven, not to mislead and say they are going to Heaven but that when the Kingdom of God is set up on this earth, we will take their positions as Rulers of this world under the direction and authority of the King of kings and Lord of lords -- Jesus Christ.
Irrelevant to Christ's directive that citizens of earth render that which is to Caesar to Caesar and that which is God's to God. Humans are capable of multi-tasking that is why God endowed them with a brain, which you might try using.
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