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Where does it say INHERIT?
You cannot inherit sin, period. Do you deny what Ez. 18:20 says? Yes or no? You are wantonly ignoring two very basic ideas in scripture. 1. We are created in God's image. 2. God cannot create anything that is bad. Do you deny that we are created in His image? Yes or no?
I have already read and addressed your take on this in previous posts. The majority of what you say is pure speculation and not Biblical. If Romans 5:19 means we all inherit sin from Adam, the you need to apply the same logic that all are saved through Christ. And that is a false doctrine.
We need to move on. Believe what you will. Nothing I can say will matter, so I won't waste my time.
"Flesh gives birth to flesh" ..........
"The LORD saw how great man’s wickedness on the earth had become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time."
"In sin my mother conceived me"
Jesus paid for the sins of all the world. In that light, God has declares the whole world "NOT GUILTY" .....
"For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son"
"God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men’s sins against them."
Then why does God damn people to hell ?
"whoever does not believe will be condemned" Mark 16:16
"whoeverbelieves in him shall not perish" John 3:16
"whoever does not believe stands condemned already John 3:18 "
"whoeverrejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on him.”John 3:36
"But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven"
People are sent to hell not because Jesus failed to reconcile everybody's sin...people are sent to hell for rejecting that payment
I believe that the original language/construct in the scripture was "death passed to all men on which all have sinned."
"The Greek phrase used is eph' ho. Eph', or epi, means "on, upon, or over." Even English dictionaries give this meaning, because so many of our words beginning with "epi" are of Greek origin. The Greek word, Ho, means "which." The phrase "on which" or "over which" denotes a consequence or result to follow." Dr. Stephen Jones reference. God's Kingdom Ministry - Creation's Jubilee
It might be good to study this but I believe that we sin because we are in the death state or because we are mortal. We are mortal because of Adam's disobedience and constituted as sinners as Eusebius shared.
I believe sin was ACCOUNTED/IMPUTED to us because we were in Adam at the time he sinned. We are not horrible sinners to begin with when we are born, but given long enough we WILL commit sin, some to a lesser degree from our view than others. The only person born exempt from this was Yeshua/Jesus.
This may seem unjust to some, BUT the rest of the verse says that All will be ACCOUNTED/IMPUTED the righteousness of Yeshua/Jesus. These are the two men that head up ALL PEOPLE. Just as no one is excluded from the accounting of sin through Adam, without ever having sinned before the reckoning, no one is excluded from the accounting of righteousness which comes through Christ.
BUT, just as babies are not born knowing how to be the worst sinner possible, no one is absolutely righteous in experience at the time we are accounted righteous. There is a time period to follow and, for most, the time period to actually learn and become righteous is longer and more difficult than actually becoming a sinner.
Think about babies who die before birth or shortly after. About the question asked recently. Do they just appear in 'heaven' knowing all truth, the difference between good and evil because they died before actually living a life where they would learn all this on earth? Or how about those that we KNOW, without a doubt, were mentally incapable of choosing right from wrong or understanding any part of God's purposes and plans? I believe there are many people we THINK are capable of understanding who are not. What of those people? Is everyone who 'makes it to heaven' perfect in knowledge and practice even though they were not subjected to any of that here on earth at the time of their death. Like the thief on the cross? Is his ability to sin just left out of his resurrected body and thoughts? I suspect many think just that. I believe that for those who did not attain full knowledge of truth and practicing of righteousness in their life, before their death, which includes most of humanity, are resurrected to an age where they will actually LIVE THEIR JUDGMENT, and eventually, learn righteousness while living under those ruling and reigning in Christ's righteousness in the age and perhaps ages to follow. There will certainly be gnashing of teeth and much regret, but when they finally learn, they too will be as righteous as anyone else.
The Bible speaks of at least two ages to follow this one. The millenial kingdom which does speak of death and sin. AT some point, and I believe it will be more than two ages, but that's just me, everyone will have been purified in the 'lake of fire' and made fit for the kingdom of God/heaven and THEN there will be no more death, no more tears, no more sorrow.
But surely, most will not hear this. To most Christians, THIS life is the only 'chance' to accept the 'offer' that Jesus provided through his death, and we are responsible to make the right choice or God who has no other option will have to turn his back on whoever falls into the 'evil' class and either hear their agony and suffering or wipe their memory from His essence and those who loved them and are enjoying life in heaven, for how could you really enjoy your blessed life while someone you live is lost forever? I think I would have a very difficult time with that.
I believe with every fiber of my being that ALL tears, from every face, will be wiped away eventually, and that God's joy will be shared by all. I can't believe the gospel (good news) is that, even though everyone of your family back 20 generations or more, are suffering torment OR at the most merciful, gone from existence, never to be seen or heard from again by those who loved them, you have the opportunity to 'go to heaven' after you die. I see the reconciliaton of ALL in the scriptures and that is what I will base my hope upon.
1. What scripture says we were all in Adam when he sinned?
2. Sin is the only thing that separates us from God. Babies do not inherit sin, nor do they sin. Therefore, they are not separate from God. Jesus is God. They, and the mentally incapable are in a safe state with God now and at the time of death. "For of such is the kingdom of heaven."
3. What scripture says we get this second chance you speak of (will live their judgement and learn righteousness)?
4. What scripture says that everyone will be purified in the lake of fire and made fit for the kingdom?
Folks, this thread is NOT about univeral salvation. It's about Romans 5:12 and original sin. I know it's hard to not refer to the universal salvation doctrine, but I'd appreciate you not making entire posts about it. I dont' want this thread being derailed. Thanks.
How can you say that "sin nature" is clearly presented in scripture when you can't find the term anywhere in the Bible? LOL
No Mike, whatever logic you apply to one half of the passage, you MUST apply to the other. You can't just make up rules of interpretation to suit your doctrine, to make everything fit nice and neat.
I don't have to deny what the scriptures say. We are created in God's image, and God cannot create anything that is not good. It's that simple.
Why would Jesus tell us to become like little children if little children are BAD?
Each of us has a choice. You choose to believe God created us bad, that's your decision. I choose to believe He created every single human being good.
Sin is a choice. We do not sin because we are bad. We sin because we want to.
All one needs to do is to read what you wrote in an earlier post of how we inherit sin nature, physically through our genes, to know that you are spouting nothing but hogwash. I'd like for you to identify the sin gene if you would. Tell us all what is the genetic marker for sin. I'm sure everyone would just love to know.
Again, I have already given some of the different names by which the sin nature is called in the Bible.
'The old man' (Eph 4:22; Col 3:9),
'The flesh' (Rom 7:14; Gal 5:17)
The body of sin (Rom 6:6)
At least twice now I have shown you that Paul distinquishes between the old nature and the new nature in Rom 7-14-25.
The soul as created by God IS perfect. But when it comes into contact with the old sin nature which resides in the body, it becomes tainted.
Regarding Matthew 18:3 Jesus said it is necessary to have childlike faith. Childlike faith is necessary to be saved. Little children are trusting and unpretentious. The older a person is the more garbage accumulates in the soul and the harder it is to believe the gospel.
Your misunderstanding of what Jesus said would have adults having to become sinless in order to be saved.
Folks, this thread is NOT about univeral salvation. It's about Romans 5:12 and original sin. I know it's hard to not refer to the universal salvation doctrine, but I'd appreciate you not making entire posts about it. I dont' want this thread being derailed. Thanks.
Katie
Katie, if you do not think babies are born imperfect, what is it that changes within them from the time they are born to the point at which they commit what you believe is their first sin?
1. What scripture says we were all in Adam when he sinned?
2. Sin is the only thing that separates us from God. Babies do not inherit sin, nor do they sin. Therefore, they are not separate from God. Jesus is God. They, and the mentally incapable are in a safe state with God now and at the time of death. "For of such is the kingdom of heaven."
3. What scripture says we get this second chance you speak of (will live their judgement and learn righteousness)?
4. What scripture says that everyone will be purified in the lake of fire and made fit for the kingdom?
1 Cor 15:22 'For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all shall be made alive.'
The entire human race was seminally in Adam from the time of his creation. Adam is the federal head of the human race.
What? Did you somehow think that all men were in Adam except when he sinned?
All men are born in Adam. Whoever believes in Christ is in Christ.
You cannot seem to grasp the fact that Rom 5:19 says that all men were made sinners by Adam's disobedience, and not by their own personal sins.
Questions 3 and 4 pertain to Universalism which is not Biblical.
Again, I have already given some of the different names by which the sin nature is called in the Bible.
'The old man' (Eph 4:22; Col 3:9),
'The flesh' (Rom 7:14; Gal 5:17)
The body of sin (Rom 6:6)
At least twice now I have shown you that Paul distinquishes between the old nature and the new nature in Rom 7-14-25.
The soul as created by God IS perfect. But when it comes into contact with the old sin nature which resides in the body, it becomes tainted.
Regarding Matthew 18:3 Jesus said it is necessary to have childlike faith. Childlike faith is necessary to be saved. Little children are trusting and unpretentious. The older a person is the more garbage accumulates in the soul and the harder it is to believe the gospel.
Your misunderstanding of what Jesus said would have adults having to become sinless in order to be saved.
Where in the scriptures does it say that when the perfect soul that God created comes into contact with the sin nature it is no longer perfect? Where is such a thing even suggested? No scripture says this. This is pure speculation on your part. If is a false doctrine. YOU ARE ADDING TO THE WORD OF GOD! This is what happens when you believe one lie. You have to keep adding to that lie to reconcile it with the first lie. I have to say, this one beats all I've ever heard.
And do you deny Ecclesiastes 7:29 also? Did God not make us all upright? Doesn't mankind include all of us? Men go astray. They are not born that way.
"This only have I found: God made mankind upright, but men have gone in search of many schemes."
No Jesus did not say you had to have only childlike faith. He said it is necessary to be like children. Children have many qualities. They are trusting, unpretentious and they are INNOCENT.
Would Jesus tell us to be like someone who has a sinful nature?
You are saying that "old man," "body of sin" and "the flesh" are synonomous with sin nature. This is what you and your cohorts believe. These are only your opinions. Your opinions are worthless to any sincere Bible student. They are only good for people who think like you do. If the Holy Spirit wanted the term "sinful nature" to be in the Bible, He would have put it there. But He did not.
Romans 7:25
"Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin."
Paul is speaking of serving the law of God as opposed to serving the law of sin with his flesh. He is not speaking of a sinful nature he inherited. In fact, Paul says,
"I was once alive apart from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin became alive and I died;" (Romans 7:9)
The only possible time Paul could have been alive was when he was born or when he was a child before he knew law. When he became aware of the law, he sinned, and therefore died spiritually.
You have a bad habit of taking a tiny bit of truth and then adding a whole lot of lie to it.
I still want to know what the sin nature gene is. What is the genetic marker for sin? Sin nature is not a physical thing like eye color, height, good singing voice, straight teeth. Human nature, yes. We all have human nature. That is not sin nature. Big difference!
By suggesting that we have a sin nature, you are in essence saying we have no choice but to sin. We do, indeed, have a choice. If you say we sin because we have a human nature, then I would agree. God gave us free will as part of our human nature. We sin because we are human. We choose to sin. We do not sin because we have a sinful nature. That puts us in a NO CHOICE position, which you and I both know is not true.
By suggesting that we have a sin nature, you are in essence saying we have no choice but to sin. We do, indeed, have a choice. If you say we sin because we have a human nature, then I would agree. God gave us free will as part of our human nature. We sin because we are human. We choose to sin. We do not sin because we have a sinful nature. That puts us in a NO CHOICE position, which you and I both know is not true.
Not necessarily, you can have a sin nature which simply makes it more difficult, but not impossible.
But lets look at it in this way also.
From your point of view, you might be suggesting that it is possible that a human being other than Jesus could live thier whole life from birth to death with out ever sinning. if you believe that is possible, then if they never sinned, they would not need Jesus, correct?
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excellent reply! 
