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Old 12-24-2011, 05:32 AM
 
Location: US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Of the three main views regarding Isa 7:14-16 one view sees this as primarily referring to Ahaz and that a virgin would give birth (not a virgin birth as in the case of Jesus) to a son around the time that the Aram-Israel alliance was broken. But that centuries later, the Holy Spirit would lead Matthew to quote Isaiah as a statement that is also true of a virgin birth (a birth to a woman who is still a virgin). Isaiah 7:14 is a prophecy concerning the Messiah, but it first referred to a son born to a virgin who gave birth to a boy in the normal way rather than in the supernatural way in which Christ came into the world.
2Pe 1:20 this first knowing, that no prophecy of the Writing doth come of private exposition,
2Pe 1:21 for not by will of man did ever prophecy come, but by the Holy Spirit borne on holy men of God spake.

Regarding these verses I would reject those three main views and search for the Truth...There can be only one Truth...
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Old 12-24-2011, 05:34 AM
 
Location: US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
Only in your mind.
When I say 'seperate' I mean that we had no existence until we came into the mind of Hawyaw and He created us from His imagination...
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Old 12-24-2011, 05:49 AM
 
Location: US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
God is perfectly fair in all that He does.

Isa 11:4
But with righteousness He will judge the poor,
And decide with fairness for the afflicted of the earth;
And He will strike the earth with the rod of His mouth,
And with the breath of His lips He will slay the wicked.


A passage concerning Jesus Christ during His Millennial reign.

mishor - Fairness, equity, uprightness, evenness, a level place.

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
equity, even place, plain, righteously, made straight, uprightness
Strong's Hebrew: 4334. ???????? (mishor or mishor) -- a level place, uprightness
Isa 11:4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.


H3198
יכח
yâkach
yaw-kakh'
A primitive root; to be right (that is, correct); reciprocally to argue; causatively to decide, justify or convict: - appoint, argue, chasten, convince, correct (-ion), daysman, dispute, judge, maintain, plead, reason (together), rebuke, reprove (-r), surely, in any wise.

H4334
מישׁר מישׁור
mıyshôr mıyshôr
mee-shore', mee-shore'
From H3474; a level, that is, a plain (often used (with the article prefixed) as a proper name of certain districts); figuratively concord; also straightness, that is, (figuratively) justice (sometimes adverbially justly): - equity, even place, plain, right (-eously), (made) straight, uprightness.

This is just stating that Hawyaw will not show favoritism in His Judgement...He will Judge according to His 'level' of standards...However, this still does not prove that the standards of Hawyaw are the same standards that humankind measures by...this does not prove that the Fairness of Hawyaw is the same fairness that humankind lives by...
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Old 12-24-2011, 06:05 AM
 
17,966 posts, read 16,085,196 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katiemygirl View Post
Eusebius, when Adam disobeyed God, he sinned. It is a fact that sin separates us from God. When we are separated from God, we are spiritually dead.

God told Adam, "“From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; 17 but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die.â€

God promised death to Adam in the day that you eat from it. We know Adam didn't die physically that day. He died spiritually because he disobeyed God.

Anyone who sins is separated from God and is spiritually dead. The only way they can be reconciled to God is by obeying the gospel.

You are right about babies though. They do not inherit sin nor do they inherit a sinful nature. God doesn't create evil.

Katie

Katie, the bible never says Adam died a spiritual death. If you are saying he died a spiritual death then you have to say his spiritual death was a very slow spiritual death until he completely spiritually died 900 some years later by working by the sweat of his brow. That does not make much sense.

Adam still talked with God as did Cain as did the others.

I guess I have to repeat myself since you are so hard of hearing what the Spirit is saying: Christ did not die to save us from spiritual death. He died to save all of mankind from sin and death. God resurrected Christ out of a literal death. He overcame a literal death.

The bible NEVER EVER mentions "spiritual death." No, not even once. So it should not be a part of our vocabulary.
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Old 12-24-2011, 06:14 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Adam died spiritually the moment he sinned.
Adam began the process of literally dying when he ate of the fruit. The fruit did not cause a spiritual death.

Quote:
That is, his relationship with God was broken. He was now separated from God in time in terms of that now non-existant relationship. Apart from God making salvation possible through the Messiah, Adam would have been eternally separated from God. But Adam believed the promise of the Messiah who would come in the future and was at that point eternally saved. He now had an unbreakable, eternal relationship with God.
Bull. He still taked with God as did Cain and Abel and so on. The bible never once mentions "spiritual death."
Quote:
Everyone thereafter is born spiritually dead - having no relationship with God and therefore separated from God. For that reason, Jesus's relationship with the Father when He was in contact with the sins of the world and being judged for them, had to be broken. That was His spiritual death. That is what paid the penalty for the sins of the world.
Balogna. No one is born spiritually dead. If they were why is the Bible silent on it? All mankind are born with death operating in them. They are DYing. It's a process.
Jesus never died a spiritual death. Quit making things up. The bible doesn't say anything about Christ dying a spiritual death. Christ died a literal death to save all mankind from literal sin and literal death.

Quote:
When the last sin of the human race had finished being paid for by Christ His relationship with the Father was restored.

When a person simply trusts in the finished work of Christ on the cross he is imputed with God's eternal life and perfect righteousness and is entered into an eternal relationship with God. He goes from spiritual death to eternal life. He goes from having no relationship with God, to having an unbreakable eternal relationship with God.
Getting back to Romans 5:12, the point Paul is making is that sin entered into the world by one man (Adam) and due to that "death passed through into all mankind." Paul was not dealing with a so-called "spiritual death" but a literal death. It is for that reason that all sin.

try sticking with the Scriptures, Mike and quit making things up that the Bible never says.
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Old 12-24-2011, 07:10 AM
 
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A Simple Question: Adam din't have a sinful nature. Why did he sin?

Katie
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Old 12-24-2011, 07:24 AM
 
9,942 posts, read 1,341,767 times
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Romans. 5 speaks of spiritual death, not physical. The context of Romans 5 is reconciliation. Verses 1-11 are specifically speaking about the blood of Jesus making us right with God. Paul has been speaking all along about spiritul death and being made right by God through faith.

There is no reason to believe that Paul suddenly, and without warning, changes the topic to physical death Believing Romans 5:12 to mean that Paul is talking about physical death goes against the rules of good Bible interpretation.

Katie
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Old 12-24-2011, 08:13 AM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
33,430 posts, read 26,815,312 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
I do not see any scripture that comes close to stating what you are stating...I think the problem you are having is in how you view humanity, that we are inherently good...I think you look at fairness from a humanistic viewpoint...If you read Leviticus, you will find a lot of unfairness according to todays societal standards, however, these are the Laws of Hawyaw...
To the contrary. Mankind is NOT inherently good. But God is perfectly fair. He can not be anything less. I already showed you a passage that states that God treats man with fairness.

As for the rest of your post, I deleted it. I may or may not bother with replying to it in a separate post.
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Old 12-24-2011, 08:15 AM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
33,430 posts, read 26,815,312 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katiemygirl View Post
A Simple Question: Adam din't have a sinful nature. Why did he sin?

Katie
Katie, I already answered that.
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Old 12-24-2011, 08:16 AM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
33,430 posts, read 26,815,312 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Adam began the process of literally dying when he ate of the fruit. The fruit did not cause a spiritual death.



Bull. He still taked with God as did Cain and Abel and so on. The bible never once mentions "spiritual death."


Balogna. No one is born spiritually dead. If they were why is the Bible silent on it? All mankind are born with death operating in them. They are DYing. It's a process.
Jesus never died a spiritual death. Quit making things up. The bible doesn't say anything about Christ dying a spiritual death. Christ died a literal death to save all mankind from literal sin and literal death.



Getting back to Romans 5:12, the point Paul is making is that sin entered into the world by one man (Adam) and due to that "death passed through into all mankind." Paul was not dealing with a so-called "spiritual death" but a literal death. It is for that reason that all sin.

try sticking with the Scriptures, Mike and quit making things up that the Bible never says.
Everyone is born spiritually dead and I have already explained why.
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