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Interesting that you being an athesist caught that analogy...
To answer your question ... nope
That a boxing ring may be called a squared circle has nothing to do with the reality that the geometric shape of a square can not at the same time also be the geometric shape of a circle or any other geometric shape. God cannot cause one geometric shape to be at the very same moment a different geometric shape.
Last edited by Michael Way; 07-02-2011 at 08:24 AM..
Exactly. There are some folks within fundamentalism that definitely are this way. Part of their peace in this world, is thinking that others that they disdain (unbelievers) will not be "gettin' to go to heaven like me." The thinking is all black/white, heaven/hell, etc. They're focusing on rewards and pearly gates and others be shoved into fires and darkness... and it helps keep them feeling "ok" with the world around them "Well as long as I end up getting rewarded for doing this religious thing, as long as I'm sacrificing all the "good-time having" I'm ok with that because I'm going to heaven and all these people "getting to sin" are going to hell.
That's a heart that is ill and needs to be healed. (and it eventually will.)
That's a mindset that has not yet even really begun to start understanding what this whole life is even about. That's a mindset that doesn't understand that there is nothing "fun or joyful" about "sin". That all sin leads to destruction. That all sin is really "non-love" and they've got a boatload of it sitting in their own hearts that they are not even fully aware of yet. It's not about heaven or hell, but about LIFE NOW. About love, about God, about what leads to life! They are missing the whole point.
But again, this will ALL eventually be healed.
Yep. And sometimes you can hear people like this talking at Sunday lunch after church in a restaurant as they size up people they detect are not dressed as if they have been "at church". Preach it, sister!
God has STATED in I Tim. 2:4 what His desire and pleasure is, and in Isa. 55:11 He has clearly declared that what He has stated "OUT OF MY MOUTH IT SHALL NOT RETURN UNTO ME VOID, BUT IT SHALL ACCOMPLISH [SAVE ALL MEN] THAT WHICH I PLEASE..."
"Remember the former things of old: for I am GOD, and there is none else; I am GOD, and there is none like Me. Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel SHALL STAND, and WILL DO ALL MY PLEASURE [as in I Tim. 2:4 and everywhere else]:
am i correct thinking that you think it is not that God can't save all His creation, but that it is that He won't?
If it is that He has the power to bring about the redemption of all but He just won't then that doesn't make Him a very loving being and makes the scripture of His love of mankind of no effect.
Sad.
Yeah. Sad that people's God IMAGE is so marred. It's no wonder they can't distinguish him from the devil.
God has STATED in I Tim. 2:4 what His desire and pleasure is, and in Isa. 55:11 He has clearly declared that what He has stated "OUT OF MY MOUTH IT SHALL NOT RETURN UNTO ME VOID, BUT IT SHALL ACCOMPLISH [SAVE ALL MEN] THAT WHICH I PLEASE..."
"Remember the former things of old: for I am GOD, and there is none else; I am GOD, and there is none like Me. Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel SHALL STAND, and WILL DO ALL MY PLEASURE [as in I Tim. 2:4 and everywhere else]: .
I have extensively researched Isaiah 55:11... I have yet to find [SAVE ALL MEN] included.....
Then I believe you quoted Isaiah 46:9-10 (KJV) ... does "everywhere else" or as I suspect "everywhere" really means only "everywhere else" as long as it points to I agree with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by boanerges
am i correct thinking that you think it is not that God can't save all His creation, but that it is that He won't?.
Challange yourself to actually list everything "everywhere else" about God's pleasure
Quote:
Originally Posted by boanerges
If it is that He has the power to bring about the redemption of all but He just won't then that doesn't make Him a very loving being and makes the scripture of His love of mankind of no effect.
Sad.
Sounds like selective "everywhere else"....
Does your list include John 3:16 ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by boanerges
If it is that He has the power to bring about the redemption of all .
There is no if in John 3:16.....
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son..."
"....that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life"
Is this not also part of "My counsel SHALL STAND, and WILL DO ALL MY PLEASURE" ....
"I abhor the assembly of evildoers and refuse to sit with the wicked."
"that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life"
"Far be it from you to do such a thing,... treating the righteous and the wicked alike. Far be it from you! Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?â€
So who is the all powerful great I AM... are you more powerful to make God treat the righteous and the wicked alike?
.... are you more powerful to make God sit with the wicked?
The way I look at it, if there is anything God cannot do (outside of things that don't make sense, like can a circle be a triangle) then He cannot be God. Hard to explain....kind of like if He does have a weakness...then eventually that weakness will surface. It might be a quadrillion squared to the 64th power times a billion earth years (yeah, I know time does not exist the way we see it in His realm), but eventually it has to surface.
God cannot cause one geometric shape to be at the very same moment a different geometric shape.
“With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.â€
God could...we just wouldn't be able to comprehend it. God's foolishness is beyond our intellegence.
Who is it to say that God couldn't have designed the foundations of everything we know differently? I think you're going to be pleasantly surprised and in awe when "God will make everything new".
The way I look at it, if there is anything God cannot do (outside of things that don't make sense, like can a circle be a triangle) then He cannot be God. Hard to explain....kind of like if He does have a weakness...then eventually that weakness will surface. It might be a quadrillion squared to the 64th power times a billion earth years (yeah, I know time does not exist the way we see it in His realm), but eventually it has to surface.
I agree there is anything God cannot do (outside of things that don't make sense, like can a circle be a triangle) then He cannot be God.
How about this for example....
God doesn't forsake those whom he loves ...yet Jesus cried out "Why have you forsaken me?"
or
God is everywhere and not everywhere at the same time.
God is indeed omnipotent. But that does not mean that He can do that which is absurd. God cannot create a square circle. God is limited in that He can not contradict who and what He is. God is truth and therefore He cannot lie. God is eternal life and therefore cannot die. God knows everything that is knowable, both the actual and what might have been, and therefore He cannot learn anything. He already knows everything that can be known.
Yes, God is all powerful. He is omnipotent. God established the princples of physics and could change them if that was a part of His plan to do so. But a circle is a circle and a square is a square. A square cannot be a circle at the same time that it is a square. God does not involve Himself in absurdities.
Also, God cannot arbitrarily save anyone apart from His requirement of faith in Christ. Having established it, God must carry out His Plan of salvation. And He must leave in condemnation all who do not place their faith in Christ before they depart this life.
yes,and this is the same reason ghosts do not exist.(except maybe in demonic form).God did not create this way...the physics are not there.ghosts do NOT move objects,make objects float thru the air (air/nothingness can't do that!),and everything else that ppl claim ghosts do.....etc.they can't because God didn't allow for it.
yes,and this is the same reason ghosts do not exist.(except maybe in demonic form).God did not create this way...the physics are not there.ghosts do NOT move objects,make objects float thru the air (air/nothingness can't do that!),and everything else that ppl claim ghosts do.....etc.they can't because God didn't allow for it.
they can't because God didn't allow for it...not because he wasn't powerful enough. Big difference.
Exactly. There are some folks within fundamentalism that definitely are this way. Part of their peace in this world, is thinking that others that they disdain (unbelievers) will not be "gettin' to go to heaven like me." The thinking is all black/white, heaven/hell, etc. They're focusing on rewards and pearly gates and others be shoved into fires and darkness... and it helps keep them feeling "ok" with the world around them "Well as long as I end up getting rewarded for doing this relgious thing, as long as I'm sacrificing all the "good-time having" I'm ok with that because I'm going to heaven and all these people "getting to sin" are going to hell.
That's a heart that is ill and needs to be healed. (and it eventually will.)
That's a mindset that has not yet even really begun to start understanding what this whole life is even about. That's a mindset that doesn't understand that there is nothing "fun or joyful" about "sin". That all sin leads to destruction. That all sin is really "non-love" and they've got a boatload of it sitting in their own hearts that they are not even fully aware of yet. It's not about heaven or hell, but about LIFE NOW. About love, about God, about what leads to life! They are missing the whole point.
But again, this will ALL eventually be healed.
And before folks come on here freaking out, if the above doesn't apply to you, then it doesn't apply to you. But I have known people both online and in real life who absolutely fit the above.
There are LOTS of different types of believers out there.
Because of where they are on their own path...
That is what makes it so difficult to talk about, because there are so many different perspectives based on your own personal knowledge and growth thus far.
BUT.... with that said, there are so many perspectives, though, for a reason. We are being shown something, and all of these different perspectives, no matter how right or how wrong, will eventually end up assisting in the revelation of knowledge. We're all in this together and no-one is better than another. We're all equal. Each of our unique paths in this world, I believe, is going to end up actually being for the benefit of all. WE are ALL in this TOGETHER.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartsong
Yep. And sometimes you can hear people like this talking at Sunday lunch after church in a restaurant as they size up people they detect are not dressed as if they have been "at church". Preach it, sister!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartsong
Yeah. Sad that people's God IMAGE is so marred. It's no wonder they can't distinguish him from the devil.
God is longsuffering and WILL have all that He desires . . . even the judgmental among us have His peace and love . . . even if there is some wrath (consequences) that must be addressed eventually.
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