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36He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
Do you know what SHALL NOT means ?
I'm sorry, but repeating that again simply misses the point.
The point is that you like to select verses where you can hilight words in support of your doctrine.
What you and many Christians do not realize is that isn't actually meaningful at all. because there is nothing in 1 Timothy 2:4 that you can hi-light to support what you believe. But yet 1 Timothy 2:4 is as much a part of the bible as the verses you post and hi-light words in.
So if you just read those two verses as a textual comparison, they contradict one another. In order for ANY of us to promote what we believe the bible says we have to determine which verses we read as is and which verses require an explanation of meaning that places the words in a context to show they do not contradict.
So the point that you missed because you wish to contineu posting verses that have words that can be hi-lighted to support your doctrine is that those verses in and of themselves do not prove anything inherantly.
My point is that ultimatly your doctrine is irrelevant because it fails to demonstrate who is chosen.
You cannot provide scripture to prove or demonstrate that a forum poster by the name of savedbysovereigngrace is indeed chosen or saved in the first place. What I believe on the other hand, while on the same level of proof as anything else can demonstrate that there is assurance for all mankind.
While you wish to argue that God may hate some people, of what consequense does is bring to the table? You only claim that you are a chosen person, but the very manner in which you interpret scripture only demonstrates that you cannot show that you are not damned and therefore cannot offer that same demonstration to anyone you promote it to.
I'm sorry, but repeating that again simply misses the point.
The point is that you like to select verses where you can hilight words in support of your doctrine.
What you and many Christians do not realize is that isn't actually meaningful at all. because there is nothing in 1 Timothy 2:4 that you can hi-light to support what you believe. But yet 1 Timothy 2:4 is as much a part of the bible as the verses you post and hi-light words in.
So if you just read those two verses as a textual comparison, they contradict one another. In order for ANY of us to promote what we believe the bible says we have to determine which verses we read as is and which verses require an explanation of meaning that places the words in a context to show they do not contradict.
So the point that you missed because you wish to contineu posting verses that have words that can be hi-lighted to support your doctrine is that those verses in and of themselves do not prove anything inherantly.
My point is that ultimatly your doctrine is irrelevant because it fails to demonstrate who is chosen.
You cannot provide scripture to prove or demonstrate that a forum poster by the name of savedbysovereigngrace is indeed chosen or saved in the first place. What I believe on the other hand, while on the same level of proof as anything else can demonstrate that there is assurance for all mankind.
While you wish to argue that God may hate some people, of what consequense does is bring to the table? You only claim that you are a chosen person, but the very manner in which you interpret scripture only demonstrates that you cannot show that you are not damned and therefore cannot offer that same demonstration to anyone you promote it to.
Jn 3:36
36He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
"The beast nature in us, insists upon having its own way."
Shall not in the verse we are considering Jn 3:36 means they shall not never see Life Eternal, they are forever condemned. Jn 3:36
36He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
That the wrath of God is abiding on them speaks for itself. That means Christ did not die for them. Christ, those He died for, God has no wrath for them because Christ propitiated God in their behalf 1 Jn 2:2;4:10
Now, the Elect of God, or people that Christ died for, even while they are enemies of God by nature and unbelievers, even then they have been reconciled to God, How ? By the Death of His Son ! Rom 5:10
10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
So, they were never under God's wrath while in unbelief, but those in Jn 3:36, they while in unbelief are under God's wrath, so obviously they are not reconciled to God. So that makes it impossible for them to be the same group that are reconciled to God while enemies by the Death of God's Son..
The reconciled group in Rom 5:10, the promise is to them, they shall be saved by Christ Life.
The group in Jn 3:36 shall not be saved, or shall not see everlasting life.
Now apply the shall's to each group, and see what you come up with?
To say the least, those in Rom 5:10, they are the Children of Promise while in their unconverted state.
Shall not in the verse we are considering Jn 3:36 means they shall not never see Life Eternal, they are forever condemned. Jn 3:36
It seems that Jesus clearly defined eternal life for us in John 17 yet you still seem to think it means living forever... Or going to heaven or something....
If you can't even get that concept, why should we believe what you say?
This idea that John 3:36 enforces the idea of eternal damnation is nonsense.
What SBSG is proposing is if you do not believe, you will not see life - meaning you will not be saved and are doomed to eternal torment. He equates "not seeing life" with "ETERNAL HELL FOR YOU".
However what SBSG is critically leaving out here is the fact that ALL OF US at one point in our life, including SBSG, did not believe. Therefore by his own interpretation, we all will not be saved and are all doomed to eternal torment, because we did not believe. After all, if you do not believe, God's wrath abideth on you, you SHALL NOT see life, which is what SBSG has repeated ad nauseum in this thread.
What John 3:36 really shows is the complete opposite to what SBSG implies. Namely: that when you don't believe you are not really seeing life and are already condemend to that fact, however anyone can come out of this state simply by believing. There is no implied timeline or deadline upon which believing will no longer help you. It is helpful to understand what 'life' is talking about: knowing God - John 17:3 for example. So what John 3:36 is really showing is that you CAN go from a state of being condemned in unbelief to a state of being saved in belief.
The message is simple: believe and you will truly have life. Ultimately everyone can do this, and then all will have life. No one is doomed forever because of John 3:36. That is always the implied meaning that is added in, as we see SBSG doing. If the implied meaning is added in, then we are all doomed by the very fact we were all unbelievers.
If we are True Believers, Thats the result of being a child of Promise, to become a believer. When God told Abraham He would multiply His Seed, He was speaking to Abraham as a Man of Faith, hence, the seed that God would multiply would be Children of Faith as well.
The Children of promise will be people of Faith, because Their Father Abraham was a comfirmed Man of Faith when God promised Him to Multiply his seed. Gen 17:1-5
1And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect [Walk by Faith].
2And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly.
3And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying,
4As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.
5Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.
6And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.
7And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.
8And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.
So God had promised Abraham a believing seed by Grace ! Just like He promised him a Son in Isaac.
Now, these Children of promise or seed, of all nations, would receive as an everlasting possession, canaan which typified Heaven.
All the seed of promise would be given Faith Rom 4:16
Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise[eternal inheritance] might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law[Jews], but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham[Gentiles]; who is the father of us all[Jew and Gentile Believers],
So all Believers are God's promised Children to Abraham as Isaac was, and they are all Heirs of promise, but again, this is confined to One Specific seed, not all of humanity without exception
That doesn't hold up, since believers can be told to depart from Jesus.
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Sure to all the seed !
