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That is the convenient excuse people give, that among other things. The phrase Righteous judgment is another one people use to obfuscate themselves from the reality of their own hearts.
This is true Paul. We stumble as we are weak. We fall, when we give into that weakness. But through Him, we are strong.
Are you telling me that we MUST sin willingly continually throughout our lives? It sure seems that way.
Ignorant sin is one thing. Willfully breaking the Holy Commandments, is another.
This is true Paul. We stumble as we are weak. We fall, when we give into that weakness. But through Him, we are strong.
Are you telling me that we MUST sin willingly continually throughout our lives? It sure seems that way.
Ignorant sin is one thing. Willfully breaking the Holy Commandments, is another.
We can water it down to the point where what we do wrong is irrelevant. We can always say that since I am a believer, well of course everything I do wrong is simply an ignorant mistake. uh huh.
You can believe that if you like, I am saying that it is actually how the carnal mind rationalizes verses that in traditional doctrine pretty much damns every last soul on earth including yours and mine.
Now if you take away that carnal rationalization, you cannot actually prove that when you die, that you will have not committed any willful sin whether physically or simply in your mind. That is what Jesus warned about that even in our minds we can willfully sin whether or not it ever manifests to a physical action.
It is easy to rest in the fallacy that you have repented therefore every thing you ever do wrong is not willful. But it is a convenient excuse to side step what traditional interpretation says. When it comes down to it, if everyone actually examined the deep recesses of their hearts, if tradition is correct, there isn't anyone saved, just ones who have deluded themselves that they are.
If you say you don't sin, aren't you called a liar in the bible?
Sure, when you act out in a evil manner before you think it out. ALL of us have done this.
I never said I didn't sin. So, no need to call anyone anything. But remember 1st John, you were partially quoting from 1:8-10, is a letter written to believers in the form of a sermon letter.
As it goes on, it also says this:
My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;
Also:
The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does NOT keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;
Hmm, and:
Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil.
No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.
Sounds to me like not everyone is a child of God now, doesn't it folks?
So every believer in Christ is a result of God's word of Promise to Abraham. So becoming a believer is not a condition of salvation , but a evidence. Its a evidence that one was included in that Promise to Abraham when God told him Gen 17:
1And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.
2And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly.
3And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying,
4As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.
Sounds to me like not everyone is a child of God now, doesn't it folks?
We are dual in nature, even Paul recognized that he went ahead and did that which he knew was wrong. He did not excuse it, he understood it and that is when he realized what the grace of god meant.
However, with that said, I understand that the bible can be read that way, and I as well as you may be a child of the devil.
Sure, when you act out in a evil manner before you think it out. ALL of us have done this.
I still can't think of one example of a sin that you act on that isn't premeditated. Saying something atrocious is still premeditated. Do you have a more specific example?
Quote:
I never said I didn't sin. So, no need to call anyone anything. But remember 1st John, you were partially quoting from 1:8-10, is a letter written to believers in the form of a sermon letter.
As it goes on, it also says this:
My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;
Also:
The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does NOT keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;
Hmm, and:
Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil.
No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.
Sounds to me like not everyone is a child of God now, doesn't it folks?
I am on my iPhone so I wasn't quoting, simply asking. But I am still wondering how someone could possibly break the commandments and do it ignorantly. Of the ten it seems impossible to accidentally break any of them. I suppose you could accidentally murder someone, but then you would have to have known there was a possibility that a murder could take place given your actions and the consequences of those actions. I've never accidentally/ignorantly sinned.
My 9 year old tries to use ignorance as an excuse for his crimes and perhaps, if what you are saying is true, I am way to hard on him when I tell him it's no excuse. Commit the crime, pay the price.
I guess it would be ok to call Gentiles, Israel "IF THE BIBLE CALLED GENTILES, ISRAEL!" But, since it separates Gentiles, the Church, and Israel as in 1 Cor. 10:32 and NEVER EVER EVEN ONCE EVER CALLS Gentiles, Israel or the Church, Israel then I guess I'll just have to say only what the BIBLE SAYS and conclude that it's NOT OK to call either group ISRAEL.
Give none offence,
neither to the Jews,
nor to the Gentiles,
nor to the church of God.
Yet, Paul says that "not all who are born of Israel are Israel". Try to figure that one out, eh? It's not that hard to figure out, it won't take me a whole day to know what it means. Paul even gives an example to explain what he meant. His example is Isaac and Ishmael. Both were born of Israel but only Isaac was true Israel. Not only that but Paul was gracious enough to give us the further example of Jacob and Esau, "Jacob I loved and Esau I hated". All this communicates to me is that being a part of Israel is not based on being born of Abraham or Isaac, because Ishamel was born of Abraham and Esau was born of Isaac, yet neither is a part of Israel. To be a part of Israel, you have to be the promised one born through Abraham or Isaac.
Who is Paul referring to in Romans 9:3 when he says "those of my own race, the people of Israel"?
Nowhere did Paul equate Gentile believers as being part of "Israel." In the Bible, "Israel" is always Israel, the nation consisting of Jews by birth. And the Gentiles are always Gentiles. BOTH the Israel of God and the Gentiles [nations] of God together form the Church of God. By redefining the word "Israel" with a mystical meaning, people are skewing Paul's teaching. "The Israel of God" is the believing part of the nation of Israel, Jews with the faith of Abraham. It is NOT the whole body of Christ, nor is it the whole nation of Israel. This fact is proven from the grammar of Gal. 6:15-16.
"For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and [kai - also] upon the Israel of God."
Paul declares "peace" and "mercy" to all who walk according to this rule. That is, the whole Church. But, he then says, "also [kai] upon the Israel of God" making a clear distinction between the whole body of Christ and the "Israel of God" a sub-group within the Body of Christ. Therefore, part of Israel (the believing remnant) is also a part of the Church. Likewise, the Gentile portion of the Church has been "grafted in" to the blessings of Abraham, as Paul stated in Rom. 11. But, that does not make them "spiritual Jews." They are "spiritual Gentiles" from those other nations that would be blessed through Abraham's seed. Saved Jews are "spiritual Jews."
God promised Abraham that he would multiply his physical seed as the stars of heaven (Jews). But there is more to Father Abraham than just the physical seed, and the nation of Israel coming from his loins. "Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee" (Gen. 17:5). This is a reference to God's twofold promise, "Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, AND all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him" (Gen 18:18;Rom 11:12). These are TWO distinct promises. The first involves the physical seed that came from Abraham's loins, through Isaac and Jacob, and the twelve tribes, in which Paul's mission was to save among the nations...the sons of adoption, represented by the two leading tribes Ephraim and Mannaseh. The second promise indicates that Abraham will become the father of many other Gentile nations, through the salvation of the remnant 7000 fig. throughout the Roman Empire Rom 11:4-5. The first is a promise of offspring by BIRTH (Israel); the second by ADOPTION the remnant portion of the diaspora (predicated by Elijah) (Gentile nations). This is turn enacts the covenant Christ makes with those surrounding the now lighted pillars and candles shining in the Roman empire.
"Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed" (Gal 3:6-8).
Pay close attention to the part of the Abrahamic Covenant that Paul said was fulfilled by the Gentiles being saved. It was NOT the part about the offspring by birth, that came through Isaac and Jacob. It was the part of the promise that through one of Abraham's offspring, all the OTHER nations (Gentiles) would be blessed in the faithful remnant whom Paul sought in the synagogues throughout the known world.
In chapter 3, Paul did not seek to contrast "physical Israel" with the "Body of Christ." Rather, he contrasted the Abrahamic Covenant with the Mosaic Covenant. Paul's whole point was to show that the Abrahamic Covenant (which includes the PERMANENT promise) depended on FAITH and not WORKS. In contrast, the Mosaic Covenant, which came 430 years later, has nothing to do with the Abrahamic Covenant (Gal. 3:17). It was temporary (v. 19), and depended on WORKS. The real promises associated with the Mosaic Covenant were CONDITIONAL (see Deut. 28-29).
We are dual in nature, even Paul recognized that he went ahead and did that which he knew was wrong. He did not excuse it, he understood it and that is when he realized what the grace of god meant.
However, with that said, I understand that the bible can be read that way, and I as well as you may be a child of the devil.
Bingo. Two natures bound up together. Until the harvest. If more people understood that, they'd stop judging everyone else and start judging themselves. Jesus speaking to Peter: "Get thee behind me, Satan".
I still can't think of one example of a sin that you act on that isn't premeditated. Saying something atrocious is still premeditated. Do you have a more specific example?
I am on my iPhone so I wasn't quoting, simply asking. But I am still wondering how someone could possibly break the commandments and do it ignorantly. Of the ten it seems impossible to accidentally break any of them. I suppose you could accidentally murder someone, but then you would have to have known there was a possibility that a murder could take place given your actions and the consequences of those actions. I've never accidentally/ignorantly sinned.
My 9 year old tries to use ignorance as an excuse for his crimes and perhaps, if what you are saying is true, I am way to hard on him when I tell him it's no excuse. Commit the crime, pay the price.
I do all the time! When I am impatient and become mad when I'm stuck in traffic or I'm short with my husband because I am exhausted after a long day. Those are sins that I don't purposely think about before I do them.
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