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“I have made your name known . . . and will make it known.” -John 17:26
Or do you think Jesus was lying?
I think Jesus was lying. Or more precisely, the numbskulls who wrote all this were putting words into Jesus' mouth. Remember, John was written 80-100 years after Jesus' crucifixion. How in hell did the writers of John have the slightest clue what he said, much less how were they able to write word-for-word 5 chapters of Jesus' discourse to the apostles at the Last Supper?
I know people who read all this and fall for it like a ton of bricks. I know an equal number of people who read it and say, "Oh, Harry Potter, wizard extraordinaire has a new rival." For one group it's God speaking; for another group it's the latest sci-fi novel, people who ask, "How could someone who wasn't even there a hundred years earlier know precisely the 3000-odd words Jesus spoke to his apostles?" This would explain, I suppose why Christians always pounce on "I have revealed your name ONLY to those you have given me." as a way to validate why they are the extra-special elite chosen of God over all of us poor lost slobs who don't deserve to sit at their banquet table.
I think Jesus was lying. Or more precisely, the numbskulls who wrote all this were putting words into Jesus' mouth. Remember, John was written 80-100 years after Jesus' crucifixion. How in hell did the writers of John have the slightest clue what he said, much less how were they able to write word-for-word 5 chapters of Jesus' discourse to the apostles at the Last Supper?
I know people who read all this and fall for it like a ton of bricks. I know an equal number of people who read it and say, "Oh, Harry Potter, wizard extraordinaire has a new rival." For one group it's God speaking; for another group it's the latest sci-fi novel, people who ask, "How could someone who wasn't even there a hundred years earlier know precisely the 3000-odd words Jesus spoke to his apostles?" This would explain, I suppose why Christians always pounce on "I have revealed your name ONLY to those you have given me." as a way to validate why they are the extra-special elite chosen of God over all of us poor lost slobs who don't deserve to sit at their banquet table.
Thrill, what you see is Christians quoting things from a religion they are no longer in, and a spirit they no longer have. All of us bible thumpers are reaching for the same goals as Jesus, to die and to become a spirit that also teaches.
Jesus gave his individual spirit but then it was promised to go away. There are two givings of the spirit but if you walk away from the covenant, you don't have the spirit. The Holy spirit came and stayed maybe 100 years and then there was nobody left in the religion of Jesus. The church had packed up and moved out when they rejected the worship system of God and created their own Sabbaths, feasts and traditions. Instead of staying loyal to Judah, they began killing Judah. Instead of keeping Jerusalem as their holy place and all the feasts of Jesus, they chose their own holy days, and Christians began killing people who kept the Pentecost.
The Holy spirit comes from Pentecost and you can't reject the feast days of Jesus and then turn to quote scriptures about people who had the Holy spirit 2000 years ago.
If all these people have the Holy spirit, it would make Jesus look like a liar but they don't have the holy spirit of Pentecost.
There is a chance for all the world to obtain a Holy Spirit greater than what was given to those first disciples but you have to prepare like the first disciples prepared and if you are quoting scriptures and promises spoken to people who had the holy spirit, you should know that you don't have it.
Thrill, what you see is Christians quoting things from a religion they are no longer in, and a spirit they no longer have. All of us bible thumpers are reaching for the same goals as Jesus, to die and to become a spirit that also teaches.
Jesus gave his individual spirit but then it was promised to go away. There are two givings of the spirit but if you walk away from the covenant, you don't have the spirit. The Holy spirit came and stayed maybe 100 years and then there was nobody left in the religion of Jesus. The church had packed up and moved out when they rejected the worship system of God and created their own Sabbaths, feasts and traditions. Instead of staying loyal to Judah, they began killing Judah. Instead of keeping Jerusalem as their holy place and all the feasts of Jesus, they chose their own holy days, and Christians began killing people who kept the Pentecost.
The Holy spirit comes from Pentecost and you can't reject the feast days of Jesus and then turn to quote scriptures about people who had the Holy spirit 2000 years ago.
If all these people have the Holy spirit, it would make Jesus look like a liar but they don't have the holy spirit of Pentecost.
There is a chance for all the world to obtain a Holy Spirit greater than what was given to those first disciples but you have to prepare like the first disciples prepared and if you are quoting scriptures and promises spoken to people who had the holy spirit, you should know that you don't have it.
Hannibal, you're saying nothing new. EVERY religion---Buddhists, Krishnas, Hindus, B'hais, Islamists and hundreds more---have had millions of members walk away and then be accused by their former brethren of "losing the Holy Spirit". Who's to say when a Christian leaves modern Christianity it's not God calling them to 'Come out of her, my people,' so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues'
I feel God has called me out of a very corrupt religion and has given me His Holy Spirit of knowledge of how degenerate Christianity has become. Thank God He called me in the nick of time too, before my time on earth was up.
The Hebrews say--I will be what I will be is more correct--so who do you think knows the Hebrew language better? Trinities or Hebrews?
For the Jewish interpretation I would first look to the Talmud and Midrash and certainly not to the Watchtower magazine the way you do. What you are calling a Hebrew translation comes from Aquila and Theodotion and it is an interpretation of a Greek translation. The Greek translation in the Septuagint is actually "ego eimi ho on" or "I am the one who is."
Quote:
The Septuagint translates ehyeh asher ehyeh of Exodus 3:14a into Greek as "ego eimi ho on", which in turn translates into English as "I am the one who is", and it translates the absolute ehyeh of 3:14b as "ho on", "the one who is".[2] This earliest of all translations of the Hebrew thus associates the revelation of Exodus 3:14 with the concept of absolute existence. However, the Septuagint translation of the verse cannot be an exact rendering of the Hebrew because neither the form of words nor the actual words of the Greek translation allow for that possibility.
The thing about the Talmud and Midrash is that you don't have only one interpretation but a wide variety. And thus your attempt to railroad everyone with a singular "Hebrew" interpretation is totally bogus.
This reference reports 3 mentions in the Talmud and 6 in the Midrash
For example...
One Talmud translation is "I am that I am."
One Midrash interpretation is: "I am now what I always was and always will be."
Hannibal, you're saying nothing new. EVERY religion---Buddhists, Krishnas, Hindus, B'hais, Islamists and hundreds more---have had millions of members walk away and then be accused by their former brethren of "losing the Holy Spirit". Who's to say when a Christian leaves modern Christianity it's not God calling them to 'Come out of her, my people,' so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues'
I feel God has called me out of a very corrupt religion and has given me His Holy Spirit of knowledge of how degenerate Christianity has become. Thank God He called me in the nick of time too, before my time on earth was up.
It is exactly that Thrill, Revelation is calling Christianity out of Babylon and from the worship of Tammuz. Tammuz has always been the name of the Babylonian Messiah and that will never change. So where you find the name of the Babylonian Messiah, you find the church laying dead at 666, and this is specifically the church at the Bema judgment.
I have no worry about the salvation of Christians and even you, but it is as you say, the bible is calling people to come out of the ways of the world, to go forth and die to their vanity and Revelation is about this specifically.
Elijah comes in great and terrible judgment but God wants them to die to their pride and judgment and instead of judging everyone, to then seek to dwell amongst them as family.
Elijah would kill them all and say,'' Lord, I am the only one left.''
Just like those first disciples wanting to do exactly what Elijah had done,'' LET US CALL FIRE DOWN ON THEIR HEADS.''
Jesus turns on them and points out the spirit they were speaking from.
A little Elijah in us all.
Last edited by Hannibal Flavius; 08-02-2016 at 11:59 AM..
Well, if you don't think the Bible is from God and only believe in yourself, then I can see why you think Jesus was a liar.
So why would he lie in his prayer to his Father about making his Father's name known? I don't see why the need for the lie.
As usual, I have been sorely misinterpreted and misunderstood. Poor, poor pitiful me.
A rhetorical question was asked, "Was Jesus lying?" Well, how in the hell do we know? We weren't even there to hear what he actually had to say.
So I answered a rhetorical question with a rhetorical answer. Where do I get off saying realistically, "Of course he was lying"? I wasn't even there to hear what he actually said so how in the hell would I know? For all we know he was reading Isaiah or Deuteronomy to them. So obviously my response was equally rhetorical.
Of course I don't think the Bible is from God. How could a New Testament containing no less than 4,000 catalogued errors be from God? How could one gospel say both thieves mocked Jesus while another gospel says only one mocked him and the other repented, and then claim it's from God? Does God make egregious mistakes like that? Obviously He does because that's how the Bible reads. But Christians hate to be confronted with commonsense questions they have no answers for.
Do I believe only in myself? Certainly not. From a worldly POV I'm one of the worst examples of a success there is. Sure I have lots of $$$$ but I credit God with giving it to me since I didn't earn it myself, I inherited it. So don't think I have any faith in myself because I don't. I just came to the realization the world is what it is---good Christians suffer and commit suicide while rich heathens prosper and have a 50 year party while they're on this ball and in the end it's all a wash because who knows what happens after we all kick the bucket? In a 100 years it will be a whole new crowd of faces and the whole thing starts all over again. As it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be.
For the Jewish interpretation I would first look to the Talmud and Midrash and certainly not to the Watchtower magazine the way you do. What you are calling a Hebrew translation comes from Aquila and Theodotion and it is an interpretation of a Greek translation. The Greek translation in the Septuagint is actually "ego eimi ho on" or "I am the one who is."
The thing about the Talmud and Midrash is that you don't have only one interpretation but a wide variety. And thus your attempt to railroad everyone with a singular "Hebrew" interpretation is totally bogus.
This reference reports 3 mentions in the Talmud and 6 in the Midrash
For example...
One Talmud translation is "I am that I am."
One Midrash interpretation is: "I am now what I always was and always will be."
Men have twisted it all into oblivion--why do you think there are 33,000 different religions claiming to be Christian? One has Jesus.1Cor 1:10)
Hannibal, you're saying nothing new. EVERY religion---Buddhists, Krishnas, Hindus, B'hais, Islamists and hundreds more---have had millions of members walk away and then be accused by their former brethren of "losing the Holy Spirit". Who's to say when a Christian leaves modern Christianity it's not God calling them to 'Come out of her, my people,' so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues'
I feel God has called me out of a very corrupt religion and has given me His Holy Spirit of knowledge of how degenerate Christianity has become. Thank God He called me in the nick of time too, before my time on earth was up.
Men have twisted it all into oblivion--why do you think there are 33,000 different religions claiming to be Christian? One has Jesus.1Cor 1:10)
You cancel out everyone who rejects the worship system of Jesus and his 7 feasts, and also people who have replaced the Sabbaths and how many are left?
You cancel out any religion who speaks against the law.
The religion of Jesus is Passover, unleavened bread, firstfruits, Shavuot, Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur, Sukkot, and Shemini Atzeret.
If all Christianity came back to their Jewish roots in the feasts and Sabbaths of Jesus there would not be thousands and this would also complete the covenant because Jesus came to take gentiles and Jews to make them one but this cannot possibly happen unless the Christian returns to the same religion as Jesus.
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We weren't even there to hear what he actually had to say. 
