60 shot, 6 killed in holiday weekend Chicago violence (crime, to buy)

[chet everett]

Originally Posted by marothisu

Look, I'm not fully blaming Indiana, but if anybody thinks it's not part of the problem then they aren't looking at all the causes to the problem. It's ONE cause - it's a way of saying that gun control in Chicago isn't going to work because it's close to other areas that are a lot easier to get a gun. Nobody ever said it was 100% of the problem, but it IS a part of the problem and it's not a small piece either. Yes, there's obvious others, but it's silly to think that there's an easy way to stop gang members from paying people to go to Indiana to get firearms.

)nce upon a time if the folks from Chicago wanted to work with the political leaders in Indiana (or Mississippi or any other state...) they easily could -- but that has changed as we've become synomous with corruption. I am sure that no one that holds political office in any neighboring state would be booted out if they setup some kind of computerized cross checks that would red-flag "straw buyers" with ties to Chicago based gang bangers. Think about it, such a thing would NOT be hurting any legitimate gun owners or honest "red neck" buyers in Indiana that wanted something to shoot whatever it is they blast away at in the Hoosier state. I further doubt that there are truly enough "legitimate dealers" in any state to come to the defense of some shady type dealer that probably all the honest dealers KNOW is "in with the bangers from Chicago"...

Of course such a system would need to be paid for Illinois and promoted by law makers that had at least a modicum of respect from folks in neighboring states. That is where the problem truly lies -- when bozos like Quinn are literally sending checks to gang bangers to "get out the vote" there is no way a governor from any neighboring state, regardless of party, would risk be associated with such patently unsavory behavior. Even people in "back water" states would be tossed out of office for such a heinous abuse...

The same sort "splatter factor" makes it essentially impossible for anyone in Springfield to "cooperate" with legislators in other states -- imagine what happens to some hapless State Senator in another state sponsors ANYTHING that would allow his opponents to say "the bum worked with folks in ILLINOIS WHERE 60 PEOPLE ARE SHOT IN ONE WEEKEND, and THIS GUY SAYS HE IS FOR "Law & Order", toss the bum and Elect "howdy My Name is Not the Incumbent, because I won't allow Mississippi/ Wisconsin/Indiana to become the sort of pit of corruption that Illinois is"...

Honestly, anybody that does not understand how toxic Illinois has become in national politics really needs to spend a night watching the TV news from another state.

[marothisu]

Most governments are corrupt in some way - and even if they did work together (Indiana and Illinois), things would still be transferred between borders. You'd have to have a border patrol probably, which Illinois surely can't afford (well, I don't think) and even then -- I mean come on, you can still get stuff through there.

As the OP has mention, the problem is greater, but in the short term this is one cause out of the many and it's all pretty sad.

[chet everett]

Guns are not "stuff" like cigarettes that are relatively poorly policed. At this point, there are more laws that are on the books from the Federal authorities and individual state licensing bodies for handguns than probably anything short of plutonium.

As I already said, Illinois stature among ordinary people in many states makes in all but impossible for Illinois lawmakers to cooperate with other state officials.

Of course an additional part of the problem is that Illinois State Police has seen declining operational funding for the better of three decades as more and more of the money that USED to keep troopers on the roads is going to pensions. In fact, if it weren't for Federal grant money we probably would not have hardly any troopers on the roads at all for critical things like holiday enforcement...

Toss in the fact that Illinois has woefully underfunded it is existing systems for gun registration, tossing out thousands of applications for concealed carry with no plausible explanation, and facing multiple lawsuits, and it is no wonder that there is slim chance for the kind of "regional solution" really getting off the ground...

Folks, you really need to get out of your little "I <3 606xx" bubbles and understand the damage that corrupt politicians truly have done our state.

[marothisu]

Thanks for taking "stuff" much too literally, Chet. This has nothing to do with love for "606xx" but nice try there. Leave it up to you to put that in there..it's like your crutch.

[Suburban_Guy]

Originally Posted by marothisu

^ That is essentially what I was getting at with my last sentence. No matter what happens, people will get them. It doesn't matter even if Illinois, Indiana, and Wisconsin all banned guns. I think actually a lot of gangs also get their guns illegally shipped via places like Mississippi, or so I hear from a few cops I've talked to.

But yeah, the thing is that immediately, I wouldn't even fully blame Chicago for the out of hand gun thing when Indiana is literally bordering one neighborhood of town and super easy for a gang to get someone to buy a gun there (which they do). I think a lot of people who say "Well, gun control isn't working in Chicago!" forget about the Indiana thing. It's not like there's a border patrol like there is between us and Canada or Mexico (not like that stops some people anyway).

Chicago gangs don
Charges expose gun pipeline from Indiana to Chicago's violence-plagued neighborhoods - Chicago Tribune

As that first link shows, you don't even have to leave the county to get guns.

A lot of these guns are traced to legitimate gun shops.

[ytsuccs]

Must be some bad shots. The speed cameras and red light cameras which have me surrounded, are all still working.

Originally Posted by CCrest182

[url=http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/More-than-50-Shot-over-Fourth-of-July-Weekend-265950061.html]More Than 60 Shot Over Fourth of July Weekend | NBC Chicago[/url]

How's gun control workin' Chicago?

[chet everett]

Originally Posted by marothisu

Thanks for taking "stuff" much too literally, Chet. This has nothing to do with love for "606xx" but nice try there. Leave it up to you to put that in there..it's like your crutch.

...the way they are reporting this "news" about 60 people shot over the weekend is horrifying. There is NO WAY that anyone wants to be associated with Illinois / Chicago and the "carnage machine" that it looks like on TV news across the country.

Politicians that HAVE HAD GANGBANGERS ON THEIR PAYROLL have lost all sense of sanity and cannot be expected to be effective in reigning in the madness.

If we get new leaders that can re-prioritize things so that there is a system that red flags "straw buyers" that will stop the flow of new guns into the hands of criminals. If there is perhaps a renewed emphasize to actually arrest, convict, and incarcerate criminals that too will be effective at separating hoodlums from deadly weapons.

Seriously, you need to understand that there is a REASON that everyday there are more posts asking if someplace "in Chicago is safe" and that reason is the utter lack of effectiveness of the existence 'do nothing' politicians that care only about conning enough local idiots to vote for them to remain in office. Violence is not just a catchy headline for news stories. Gun violence ought to be deal with by polticians that can marshal cooperation of other states AND devote resources to the problem. That is not going to happen when politicians that pay gang bangers to "get out the vote" remain in office.

You can try rationalize that "all poltics are corrupt in some way" but the FACT is no other state has SUCH A RECENT AND DISGUSTING MESS ON ITS HANDS! The people SHOT are not like somebody slowed down by closed lanes on a tollbridge -- regardless if they were in opposing gangs they still have BULLET HOLES through their bodies because folks have obtained weapons illegally! That is a huge thing and people in other states are disgusted by it. Illinois PRIOR TWO GOVERNORS have been found guilty of FEDERAL FELONIES and our current BONE HEAD almost certainly has violated if not technical laws against what is legal "campaign worker" than at least ethics that any sane person ought to have against PAYING GANG BANGERS TO ROUND UP VOTERS...

[qwertyasdf]

I think it would be ok for Indiana to give away or sell Lake County to the City of Chicago or to the State of Illinois. Chicago Land area becomes the nations 51st state. Thusly, the conservatives in Illinois and Indiana can get back to their small towns and shoot their guns all they want and, more importantly, no longer will forced to be a never-ending source of finance for the City of Chicago and Lake County Indiana. Lake County is more aligned with and has much more in common with Chicago and Illinois than it does for Indiana, especially in the Central and Southern portions of the state. Chicago Land as it's own state seems like a win-win for everybody with it's tax base coming from the upper middle and the upper upper income people who live in the suburbs.

[mysticaltyger]

Originally Posted by CCrest182

The problem isn't even limited to Wisconsin and Indiana. Even if you were to now, in 2014, make laws stricter or even ban guns universally, a black market would arise, and we will see what happened in the days of prohibition, and like we're seeing with mariajuana, crack cocaine, etc. Just because it's banned everywhere doesn't even mean people won't be getting them. You know, people can even PRINT their own guns now?

Absolutely. Did you hear about California state legislator, Leland Yee? The headline says it all.

California Democrat And Gun Control Advocate Charged With Arms Trafficking - Forbes

[mysticaltyger]

Originally Posted by CCrest182

I would rather say we have a "thug" or "gang" culture in this country, and unfortunately, in Chicago possibly among the most with the issue.

I would agree. Of course, to address the "thug" culture, we must address the way in which people begin families. Most thugs come from single parent families. But if you point out that the single parent family doesn't lead to good outcomes, you're shouted down as a right wing nut job.

Fortunately, there are some centrists & left leaning folks who are pointing this out:

20 years later, it turns out Dan Quayle was right about Murphy Brown and unmarried moms - The Washington Post

"... And Baby Makes Two", by Emily Yoffe, Slate Magazine, Thursday, March 20th, 2008