Why do people say Chicago is segregated? (Lincoln, Albany: neighborhood, elementary schools)

[Chi-town Native]

Originally Posted by chicagobear

I don't like using the word segregation in this context. When Governor George Wallace of Alabama said segregation forever, he meant government enforced separation of the races such as Jim Crow or apartheid, not the natural tendency of people to choose to live among others like themselves. As long as people have the right to live wherever they can afford (which they do), I don't see any problem with neighborhoods tending to be homogeneous.

I agree with this in theory, but it is fair to point out that "live wherever they can afford" does have the racial element to it of gentrification. Gentrification destabilizes neighborhoods - and many believe this is intentional - due to the reliance on property taxes to pay for the public schools. This leads to higher real estate values, higher rents, and squeezes long-time residents (or ones in jobs where salaries don't keep up with inflation) out of their neighborhoods when they retire and they can't keep up with the increased expenses to own or rent.

There has never in my knowledge been a poorer white community who was priced out of their neighborhood by higher-income minorities. White flight was the exact opposite, where white people left because of the fear that black neighbors were lowering property values so you better sell fast while you can. The reverse on the other hand, has happened pretty often.

I would say that if we could divorce education spending from property tax revenues, instead going the NYC route of having a separate municipal income tax to fund schools, then the argument that government-driven segregation is over will be basically true.

[UrbanCheetah]

Originally Posted by stephei2000

Honestly, some of those on the list, Uptown, Pilsen, Avondale, etc. have a major grit element, and are suitable for those who have a thicker skin and are not depressed by that urban grit.


This is true. In tighter immigrant neighborhood tends to bring a harsher culture than your LV/LP, and a person would need extremely thick skin to deal with this.

A typical Chicago transplant especially Midwestern in not look for this experience.

Ok and, so that? somehow that makes those neighborhoods not count as integrated? The fact is they are integrated. Whether or not someone has the "skin" to handle it or it's not what they are looking for, that is a personal problem of their's. This is exactly my annoyance. People use LP and LV to represent the city as a whole when it comes to an ideal. Because Avondale is not like LP and LV we shouldn't include it then.

Also, if you think Avondale is gritty and you need thick skin to live there then I suggest you don't live in a city at all. There is nothing scary or intimidating about Avondale at all. The logic some of you have is just ridiculous.

[marothisu]

It is pretty true, whoevever said that people on here think that LP and LV represent most of Chicago. It's kind of hilarious to think about. When someone says the north side is all like that and totally disregard areas like West Ridge, Rogers Park, Edgewater, Albany Park, Uptown, etc..

LP and LV are just two neighborhoods in the city. Only 5.5% of the population of Chicago lives there. It's equally as funny when people kind of claim that all of Chicago is "really ****ing midwestern" and then disregard areas like Little Village or other areas of town where you will barely see English on the signage.

[UrbanCheetah]

Originally Posted by marothisu

It is pretty true, whoevever said that people on here think that LP and LV represent most of Chicago. It's kind of hilarious to think about. When someone says the north side is all like that and totally disregard areas like West Ridge, Rogers Park, Edgewater, Albany Park, Uptown, etc..

LP and LV are just two neighborhoods in the city. Only 5.5% of the population of Chicago lives there. It's equally as funny when people kind of claim that all of Chicago is "really ****ing midwestern" and then disregard areas like Little Village or other areas of town where you will barely see English on the signage.

Exactly. The only neighborhoods that really feel that have that Midwestern Americana Big Ten feel to it are Lakeview, Lincoln Park and to a smaller extent the the Near North Side and Wicker Park. Outside of theatrest of Chicago is not that typical Midwestern Americana Big Ten like it is in LP and LV.

Places like Logan Square, Avondale, Irving Park, Ukranian Village, Pilsen, etc, have their own thing going on that is different form Lincoln Park or LV. Doesn't mean it's bad, just different.

[Vlajos]

Originally Posted by marothisu

It is pretty true, whoevever said that people on here think that LP and LV represent most of Chicago. It's kind of hilarious to think about. When someone says the north side is all like that and totally disregard areas like West Ridge, Rogers Park, Edgewater, Albany Park, Uptown, etc..

LP and LV are just two neighborhoods in the city. Only 5.5% of the population of Chicago lives there. It's equally as funny when people kind of claim that all of Chicago is "really ****ing midwestern" and then disregard areas like Little Village or other areas of town where you will barely see English on the signage.

18 languages are spoken by students in my kid's elementary school. They're all midwestern rubes of course.

[MichiVegas]

Chicago is called segregated because it is?

You haven't noticed the South Side is mostly black (and most South Side neighborhoods close to 100% black)?

You haven't noticed the North Side is mostly white (and most prime North Side neighborhoods like 90% white)?

The West Side is the same. You cross the tracks from Little Village into Lawndale, you go from 100% Mexican to 100% black.

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by UrbanCheetah

Exactly. The only neighborhoods that really feel that have that Midwestern Americana Big Ten feel to it are Lakeview, Lincoln Park and to a smaller extent the the Near North Side and Wicker Park. Outside of theatrest of Chicago is not that typical Midwestern Americana Big Ten like it is in LP and LV.

Places like Logan Square, Avondale, Irving Park, Ukranian Village, Pilsen, etc, have their own thing going on that is different form Lincoln Park or LV. Doesn't mean it's bad, just different.

Agreed. LP and LV are more midwestern because that's where a lot of the Big 10 transplants move to after school. Of course, the eastern section of Lakeview is a little different than that and not as midwestern but yeah. Some of the Near North Side is like that too, but personally as a resident, I feel that changing. Not only do I meet more and more people who moved here not from the midwest, but the businesses opening up are more and more non midwestern ish. When something new opens up in River North or Streeterville for example, it's not a sports bar anymore usually.

There's many areas of Chicago where you will not see or hear as much English. Hell, even at the Viagra Triangle in Gold Coast, if you sit out sometime at Mariano Park in the middle and just listen, you'll hear guys talking in Italian or some other European languages. There's a number of Europeans who hang out there, probably because it's more like Europe than the US. I think that people just stay so much in one of 3-5 neighborhoods that they forget about the other 95% of Chicago.

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by Vlajos

18 languages are spoken by students in my kid's elementary school. They're all midwestern rubes of course.

LOL. Yeah, Albany Park is very midwestern...oh wait. People should really get out into areas like Little Village (South Lawndale), Chinatown (Armour Square), Albany Park, West Ridge, Pilsen (Lower West Side), Portage Park, Belmont Cragin, Hermosa, etc etc etc, etc

Speaking of Little Village, I found this:
Mayor says 26th Street is city

[MichiVegas]

Originally Posted by marothisu

LOL. Yeah, Albany Park is very midwestern...oh wait. People should really get out into areas like Little Village (South Lawndale), Chinatown (Armour Square), Albany Park, West Ridge, Pilsen (Lower West Side), Portage Park, Belmont Cragin, Hermosa, etc etc etc, etc

Speaking of Little Village, I found this:
Mayor says 26th Street is city

You really think most of these places are diverse?

Albany Park, yes, it's the most diverse neighborhood in Chicago.

But Little Village? Pilsen? Belmont Cragin? I don't think these are diverse areas.

I bet you public elementary schools in Little Village are almost 100% Mexican. Not even 100% Hispanic, but Mexican.

[UrbanCheetah]

Originally Posted by MichiVegas

Chicago is called segregated because it is?

You haven't noticed the South Side is mostly black (and most South Side neighborhoods close to 100% black)?

You haven't noticed the North Side is mostly white (and most prime North Side neighborhoods like 90% white)?

The West Side is the same. You cross the tracks from Little Village into Lawndale, you go from 100% Mexican to 100% black.

Very foolish of you. Put that tail between your legs now.

I did some quick stats. Out of the 2.7 million people in Chicago 800k live in an integrated or balanced neighborhood demographically. That's 800k! That bigger than city proper's of Boston, Seattle, Denver, DC, Atlanta, Miami, Detroit and about the same size of San Francisco and Austin. If you can't find an integrated or diverse neighborhood to live in Chicago that's because you don't want to, not because you can't find it. 800k in population already do. Check out below.

Rogers Park:
39% White
26% Black
24% Hispanic
54K in population

West Ridge:
42% White
11% Black
20% Hispanic
71k population

Edgewater:
54% White
14% Black
16% Hispanic
11% Asian
56k population

Albany Park:
29% White
49% Hispanic
14% Asian
51k population

North Park:
49% White
17% Hispanic
25% Asian
17k in population

Irving Park:
41% White
45% Hispanic
53k population

Portage Park:
53% White
38% Hispanic
64k in population

Avondale:
28% White
64% Hispanic
39k in population

Logan Square:
39% White
50% Hispanic
73k in population

West Town:
56% White
29% Hispanic
81k in population

Near West Side:
41% White
31% Black
9% Hispanic
54k in population

Near South Side:
48% White
28% Black
15% Asian
21k in population

Jefferson Park:
68% White
19% Hispanic
8% Asian
25k in population

Dunning:
70% White
23% Hispanic
41k in population

Montclare:
37% White
53% Hispanic
13k in population

Armour Square:
12% White
10% Black
72% Asian
13k in population

Bridgeport:
35% White
27% Hispanic
34% Asian
31k i population

Loop:
62% White
11% Black
15% Asian
29k in population

Near North Side:
72% White
10% Black
10% Asian
80k in population