Why is UpTown considered bad? (Chicago, Lincoln: to rent, buying, schools)

[Vlajos]

Originally Posted by ChiNaan

Many of mine are "creative class" types, too, and most of the rest are academic/education types. Only a small handful of them could be called "upper middle class." (They're doctors and lawyers.)

I'm curious, are you from the suburbs, by chance, or are most of your friends? I have noticed the pattern where people from the suburbs will move to the city for their 20's then move back to the suburbs. Most of my friends and I are from other cities/states, though. In fact, the only two I can think of who are originally from Chicagoland are from the actual city, not the suburbs. The rest of us moved to the Chicago area specifically for the city, even though many of us have to commute to the suburbs for work. We have no ties to the suburbs and the idea of moving to them is every bit as foreign as moving to a completely different city or state would be, if not more so. I even tried living out there to be close to work, and it was not pretty. Never again, kids or no kids.

Good point on locals growing up in the suburbs. I did and never wanted to live out there again. My wife is from Wisconsin, she was even more opposed to the suburds than I am. We now have a nice SFH in the City with 3 kids in CPS.

Couldn't be happier.

[Lookout Kid]

Originally Posted by Chi-town Native

It's not a question of where CPS is right this second, it's a question of which direction it is heading. Public schools lag gentrification significantly, it takes a while, but once done, it hasn't reversed, at least not in my lifetime.

Nettlehorst, Audubon, Bell, Ogden, Lincoln, Whitney Young, Northside Prep, Lane, Waters, Hamilton, Oscar Mayer, etc. aren't going to be slammed with low income kids any time soon.

I think I am being misunderstood. I am not saying that this will not happen. I am saying it is a positive thing, and that it should be encouraged. And that we still have a long way to go before the City of Chicago is truly a destination for middle class families on par with suburbia.

[Chi-town Native]

In terms of who is/isn't moving to the burbs, the housing mess really has thrown all prior patterns by the wayside IMO.

I see no pattern whatsoever in my friend group, city natives periodically move to the burbs, suburban natives are saying here for the long haul, etc.

It's really driven as much by where employers are as anything, I think my friends are more likely to move to the burbs to avoid a 90 minute+ commute each way, every day, than worried about going an extra 15 minutes out of their way to get a kid to/from school.

[ChiNaan]

Originally Posted by Chi-town Native

It's not a question of where CPS is right this second, it's a question of which direction it is heading. Public schools lag gentrification significantly, it takes a while, but once done, it hasn't reversed, at least not in my lifetime.

Nettlehorst, Audubon, Bell, Ogden, Lincoln, Whitney Young, Northside Prep, Lane, Waters, Hamilton, Oscar Mayer, etc. aren't going to be slammed with low income kids any time soon.

Yes, this.

[RogersParkGuy]

Originally Posted by Sour

I don't know, it just seems like UpTown has a bad reputation. Even my wife, who has lived in Chicago all her life, try's to tell me it's one of the worst areas in Chicago. I've been there multiple times, even there last week, I just don't see what's dangerous about there.

Sure, Broadway & Wilson can be sketchy ( I was there 12 P.M at night), and outside the Aragon Ballroom has a few weird fellows, but overall I find the area fairly nice and the people don't look trashy or anything.

Obviously not the best area in the city, but easily not the worst neighborhood, not even close.

I lived in Uptown for 3 years 20 years ago, when the area was much "sketchier" than it is today. Uptown is not, nor was it ever, one of the worst areas in Chicago.

Uptown was simply one of the worst areas yuppies wanted to move to. Stories about how bad Uptown was were actually spreading as the neighborhood was getting more and more upscale. It just wasn't getting upscale fast enough to satisfy some people. The newer, wealthier residents wanted, and continue to want, nothing short of a total purge of poor people, so the area could become more like Lakeview or Lincoln Park. Now that longtime alderman Helen Shiller is gone, they are getting their wish. The new alderman, James Cappleman, is going on a major offensive to rid the neighborhood of minorities and poor people. This is ironic, considering that as a gay man, Cappleman is a minority himself.

[Chi-town Native]

Originally Posted by Lookout Kid

I think I am being misunderstood. I am not saying that this will not happen. I am saying it is a positive thing, and that it should be encouraged. And that we still have a long way to go before the City of Chicago is truly a destination for middle class families on par with suburbia.

You're right from a bird's eye view of the whole City, but you're wrong (and really wrong) when you look at smaller areas.

All it takes is word to spread that a school is "on the way up" to have it change within 1 - 3 years.

My kid goes to Hamilton, it was supposed to be shut down maybe 5 years ago. Parents rallied. New principal came in with the all-important principal autonomy. We barely got in 3 years ago, and this year the Kindergarten wait list was 600 strong.

That's insane. Don't think this goes unnoticed by CPS... tackling endemic poverty, crime, single parent households, etc. is beyond the charter of a school system to address.

But gauging pent-up demand for a good neighborhood school, no problem.

[Lookout Kid]

Originally Posted by ChiNaan

Who do you think occupies most of the private schools, apart from the handful of elite schools where the rich kids go, if not upper middle class kids?

It's a small number compared to the hundreds of thousands in Hinsdale, New Trier Township, Barrington, and the dozens of other upper-middle class suburbs out there that cater to families. Why shouldn't Chicago capture more of this wealth closer to the jobs in the Loop?

[Vlajos]

Originally Posted by ChiNaan

Yes, this.

Of course this! Look at the demographics of those elementaries over the last 10 years. Full on reversals from huge low income populations to the opposite.

If you want CPS to be better do something about it. (Not directed at ChiNaan)

[ChiNaan]

Originally Posted by Lookout Kid

There is a lack of stability in Chicago's middle and upper-middle class that I don't think is healthy for the city.

If by "lack of stability" you mean people move to a place to stay for several years before moving to another place, that's just what middle and upper-middle class people tend to do, in my experience. They go where the job opportunities are in places they think they'd enjoy living until the next better opportunity comes along. In fact, many other cities (Austin and Denver come to mind, among others) seem to have a much lower percentage of native-born people than Chicago does. While there are certainly exceptions, most of the people I've known who have stayed in one place their whole lives are working class "townie" types.

[Vlajos]

Originally Posted by Chi-town Native

You're right from a bird's eye view of the whole City, but you're wrong (and really wrong) when you look at smaller areas.

All it takes is word to spread that a school is "on the way up" to have it change within 1 - 3 years.

My kid goes to Hamilton, it was supposed to be shut down maybe 5 years ago. Parents rallied. New principal came in with the all-important principal autonomy. We barely got in 3 years ago, and this year the Kindergarten wait list was 600 strong.

That's insane. Don't think this goes unnoticed by CPS... tackling endemic poverty, crime, single parent households, etc. is beyond the charter of a school system to address.

But gauging pent-up demand for a good neighborhood school, no problem.

So true. Can't rep you right now.

Hamilton was 87% low income in 2002, in 2012 it's 47%.