Why is UpTown considered bad? (Chicago, Lincoln: renters, home, school)

[ChicagoMeO]

Originally Posted by Lookout Kid

The phrase "cleanse from the neighborhood" has that lovely 1990s Bosnia ring to it, and was certainly a horrible choice of words.

When you have such a wild mix of incomes and social norms mixed tightly in a neighborhood like Uptown, you'll get all kinds of reactions on both sides. I admire Aleking's tolerance of Uptown in it's current state, and his appreciation for the positive attributes of diversity. Uptown is a truly fascinating neighborhood with a lot to offer.

I also understand ChicagoMeo's frustration with the state of social services in Uptown, and the behavior of homeless residents. Poverty, addiction, and mental illness are uncomfortable things to witness. But sweeping them under the rug or just relocating it "out of site" isn't a solution. The "cleansing" comment comes off as really inhumane.

To me, the question is "How did Uptown become a social service mecca on the North Side, and should it continue to be one?" And if the "gentrification" trend is going to displace some of this activity (which I've stated I am alright with--to a degree--in this prime north lakefront location), will other locations be able to fill in service gaps that appear?

Yes my words may sound harsh, but they come from a point of view of one who is not homeless and not a homeless advocate. I come from the point of view of standing up for people who own/rent property, stores, and people who just want to live free of people who bug them in their own environment.

I can get political but i wont here except to say we are reaping the results of a once-good idea - the welfare state - but unforunately it has reaped bad consequences like people being homeless. I dont have any solutions really, but I do stand up for those who dont like their community with homeless in them. I know im going to hell for it, but I guess i sound kind of heartless, but yet i keep thinking realistically and i do feel for the people who have something to be effected like stores. do you want your neighborhood to have homeless people roaming and scareing away paying customers? or do you want a nice environment?

Sorry but the homeless have been a bad thing for me cant help having a negative perception from it.

[Lookout Kid]

Originally Posted by ChicagoMeO

Sorry but the homeless have been a bad thing for me cant help having a negative perception from it.

Most of the homeless people you see out on the street panhandling are chronically homeless individuals, and many of them have mental health or addiction problems. You can say this was caused by the "welfare state" if you want to, but I believe it was more accurately caused by the massive closings of state-run mental health institutions that occurred in the 70s and 80s, and it's only exacerbated by the lack of decent job prospects for low-skilled workers, some of whom have felony convictions on their records. In the absence of state-funded options, Uptown is the destination for these people. The problem is that is often a permanent destination as the cycles that cause the homelessness continue for many years.

But there is another side of homelessness that is less visible, and that's families, single mothers, or other normally healthy individuals who have fallen on hard times and have lost their homes. Most of the time these people were struggling to begin with, and then some catastrophic event pushed them over the edge in to homelessness (job loss, medical problem, etc.). If they don't have mental health issues or addiction issues, homelessness is usually a temporary situation for them. Without some form of aid, they would suffer needlessly on the street, and that is a terrible thing.

[TBideon]

Uptown, like much of Chicago (and frankly our country as a whole), has chosen to protect, house, feed and give considerable carte blanche/leeway to people in rehab centers, Section 8 residents, homeless/panhandlers, halfway home residents, sex offenders, and gang members and affiliates (Vice Lords and Gangster Disciples come to mind) AT THE EXPENSE of those without such baggage. Now there are certainly parts of Uptown where this behavior is not tolerated, but this is still a somewhat truthful stigma for other areas of Uptown, generally east of the tracks by Wilson, Lawrence, along Sheridan at points, Hazel, and some other areas. And bad parts always overlap into good. Always.

Uptown is considered bad (well, probably more gritty or rough than bad) because those areas have such a high congestion of anti-social and unproductive types, and they are by and large tolerated (perhaps even encouraged) by much of the local community, aldermen, and other influential people, those who say to hell with those who want to make Uptown more viable. We need more shelters!

Just think of all the violence that goes on by and in Truman college. I think that speaks volumes of the neighborhood as a whole.

[nearnorth]

Originally Posted by Lookout Kid

To me, the question is "How did Uptown become a social service mecca on the North Side, and should it continue to be one?"

Probably because they were forced out of everywhere else. Ideally these services would be more spread-out to better serve the population, so that everyone who needs them would not need to all live in the same neighborhood.

[rubbersoul89]

Originally Posted by ChicagoMeO

I can get political but i wont here except to say we are reaping the results of a once-good idea - the welfare state - but unforunately it has reaped bad consequences like people being homeless.

you think the welfare state is the reason there are homeless people?

not even gonna touch that one.

[urza216]

Originally Posted by nearnorth

I assumed that. And?



Yes, they should. And?

As with most of your posts, I have no idea what point you were trying to make here.

At least my posts utilize more than one word for clarity.

It wasn't even ChicagoMEO who started using the term "cleanse" for her perspective. She just repeated it..

[ChicagoMeO]

Originally Posted by urza216

At least my posts utilize more than one word for clarity.

It wasn't even ChicagoMEO who started using the term "cleanse" for her perspective. She just repeated it..

No i believe another poster above me used "cleansed" and it has a bad connotation for some people, as in Nazi stuff, and I do not mean that.

The welfare state caused a lot of people to become dependent on government to take care of them. Some are sick yes and cant help it. but some make it a lifestyle.

A better idea would be perhaps round up all the homeless and poor, and TEACH THEM skills, then perhaps they could all rehab some of the bad/rundown housing and that would give them a job plus a place to live.. they could then take pride in it.

as for convicts, well thats another story, i think many are beyond redemption once they get into the prison system, depending on the crime, there is not much hope for them.. (pedophiles - low hope, gang bangers, low hope, for example); I would not want a convict living with a homeless woman and her kids, but perhaps they all can be sorted out somehow... put the safest ones living together that look like they WANT to make life better, teach them skills, the government can even pay for their training and/or provide a trainer/teacher, they could all live together and babysitting problems are solved. thats just a few ideas to CLEANSE THE AREA OF POOR AND HOMELESS and put them in the category of the people that ought to live there.

ACTUALLY, some of the homeless/poor HAVE skills, if they could all work together like Habitat for Humanity, it could make Uptown and other places a better place..

[jwuk45]

Originally Posted by ChicagoMeO

No i believe another poster above me used "cleansed" and it has a bad connotation for some people, as in Nazi stuff, and I do not mean that.

The welfare state caused a lot of people to become dependent on government to take care of them. Some are sick yes and cant help it. but some make it a lifestyle.

A better idea would be perhaps round up all the homeless and poor, and TEACH THEM skills, then perhaps they could all rehab some of the bad/rundown housing and that would give them a job plus a place to live.. they could then take pride in it.

as for convicts, well thats another story, i think many are beyond redemption once they get into the prison system, depending on the crime, there is not much hope for them.. (pedophiles - low hope, gang bangers, low hope, for example); I would not want a convict living with a homeless woman and her kids, but perhaps they all can be sorted out somehow... put the safest ones living together that look like they WANT to make life better, teach them skills, the government can even pay for their training and/or provide a trainer/teacher, they could all live together and babysitting problems are solved. thats just a few ideas to CLEANSE THE AREA OF POOR AND HOMELESS and put them in the category of the people that ought to live there.

ACTUALLY, some of the homeless/poor HAVE skills, if they could all work together like Habitat for Humanity, it could make Uptown and other places a better place..

Most people aren't homeless because they don't have a home, they're homeless because there are other problems going on (mental health issues, addiction, family issues, etc) which makes maintaining a home almost impossible. Also, giving them a job would be nice, but there aren't any. I sent out over 100 resumes, and finally got a job that pays $8 an hour. And I have a degree and 10 years of work experience.

[Aleking]

Originally Posted by Aleking

I have a theory that one of the reasons why Uptown's reputation continues to struggle (even when compared to more violent neighborhoods like Humboldt Park) is the way it was marketed to during the pre-housing crisis boom from 2000-2007. Surrounding neighborhoods were already well on their way and Uptown saw a massive influx of suburban transplants looking to make a quick buck in a lakefront neighborhood near Wrigley Field. Instead of embracing and building on the diversity, edge, transit options, and vibe of neighborhood (the Wicker and now Logan model), they became fixated on crime ... blowing up every minor incident into a headline worthy brouhaha. Uptown is still a gritty urban neighborhood but it's far from the war zone many of it's digruntled condo owners project.

3 pages deep and I think i've been proven spot on. Uptown is having a great year when it comes to violent crime and the focus continues to be overwhelmingly negative.

[ChicagoMeO]

Originally Posted by Aleking

3 pages deep and I think i've been proven spot on. Uptown is having a great year when it comes to violent crime and the focus continues to be overwhelmingly negative.

seems that way.

but really, I lived there two years, some parts are actually ok. And more would be ok if a few elements were changed. It woujld be as wonderful as Lakeview is.