New York vs Chicago, which is more dangerous? (Noble, Humboldt: apartment, crimes)

[jwuk45]

The methods used to reduce crime in New York can work, but really the bigger issue is fixing the root problems: poverty and inequality. It's an absolute disgrace that there is anyone in the richest country in the world (and Chicago flaunts these riches as much as any other city) not living with the basics of decent housing, free healthcare and steady employment. If they spent as much time locking up rich bankers and corrupt politicians and lobbyists (none of whom ever seem to get jail time) as people robbing gas stations and taking drugs, I think many of these problems would be reduced.

[PA Born]

Originally Posted by jwuk45

Erm, clearly you've misread it. It has stats for both violent crime and property crime.

No, I didn't misread it. You can't group all crimes and then get a crime index, unless you think the Loop is more dangerous than Englewood or the Upper East Side more dangerous than the South Bronx.

Not all crimes are equal. Not all property crimes, and not all violent crimes. That's why you look at specific offenses, so you aren't conflating shoplifting with serious crimes.

[Vlajos]

Originally Posted by UPChicago

I agree, which is why I'm a little glad for the national attention. People looking at it from neighborhoods that aren't affect really don't know how bad the situation has gotten. Chicago's crime is it's biggest con and people will continue to move out of the city until it's corrected.

The situation is much improved from the 90s even including last years jump in homicides. Historical number of homicides in Chicago:

1990: 851
1991: 927
1992: 943
1993: 855
1994: 931
1995: 828
1996: 796
1997: 761
1998: 704
1999: 643
2000: 633
2001: 667
2002: 656
2003: 601
2004: 453
2005: 451
2006: 471
2007: 448
2008: 513
2009: 459
2010: 436
2011: 435
2012: 506

All other crime has dropped as well. This doesn't mean what's happening now is acceptable, but it helps put things in perspective.

[UPChicago]

Originally Posted by Vlajos

The situation is much improved from the 90s even including last years jump in homicides. Historical number of homicides in Chicago:

1990: 851
1991: 927
1992: 943
1993: 855
1994: 931
1995: 828
1996: 796
1997: 761
1998: 704
1999: 643
2000: 633
2001: 667
2002: 656
2003: 601
2004: 453
2005: 451
2006: 471
2007: 448
2008: 513
2009: 459
2010: 436
2011: 435
2012: 506

All other crime has dropped as well. This doesn't mean what's happening now is acceptable, but it helps put things in perspective.

Yes its better but as you said not acceptable given that cities of it's size and scale in America are much more safe.

[Vlajos]

Originally Posted by UPChicago

Yes its better but as you said not acceptable given that cities of it's size and scale in America are much more safe.

And there are cities in America of smaller size with significantly higher crime rates.

What do you propose be done?

[jwuk45]

Originally Posted by PA Born

No, I didn't misread it. You can't group all crimes and then get a crime index, unless you think the Loop is more dangerous than Englewood or the Upper East Side more dangerous than the South Bronx.

Not all crimes are equal. Not all property crimes, and not all violent crimes. That's why you look at specific offenses, so you aren't conflating shoplifting with serious crimes.

Where does it say that the Loop is more dangerous than Englewood? The Loop: 0.8 violent crime; Englewood: 1.7. And where does it say that the Upper East Side is more dangerous than the south Bronx?

[UPChicago]

Originally Posted by Vlajos

And there are cities in America of smaller size with significantly higher crime rates.

What do you propose be done?

I really don't know what can be done but I think making Chicago safe would be the best form of economic development. I really think anything that's reasonably should be explored because clearly the same ole hasn't worked.

[Lookout Kid]

Originally Posted by jwuk45

The methods used to reduce crime in New York can work, but really the bigger issue is fixing the root problems: poverty and inequality. It's an absolute disgrace that there is anyone in the richest country in the world (and Chicago flaunts these riches as much as any other city) not living with the basics of decent housing, free healthcare and steady employment.

Sure, poverty and inequality would be wonderful to solve. But New York has not solved these issues, and still has a much lower crime rate than Chicago. So clearly we can do more than we do today.

[Vlajos]

Originally Posted by Lookout Kid

Sure, poverty and inequality would be wonderful to solve. But New York has not solved these issues, and still has a much lower crime rate than Chicago. So clearly we can do more than we do today.

I agree. What did NYC do?

[jwuk45]

Originally Posted by Vlajos

I agree. What did NYC do?

CompStat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Although as is mentioned, it was implemented alongside:

The training and deployment of around 5,000 new better-educated police officers
The integration of New York's housing and transit police into the New York Police Department
Police decision-making being devolved to precinct level
The clearing of a backlog of 50,000 unserved warrants
Robust "zero tolerance" campaign against petty crime and anti-social behavior under Mayor Giuliani and Police Commissioner Bill Bratton
Widespread removal of graffiti
Programs that moved over 500,000 people into jobs from welfare at a time of economic buoyancy
Housing vouchers to enable poor families to move to better neighborhoods
Gentrification, displacement of lower income individuals more likely to commit crimes from gentrifying or gentrified communities
Demographic changes including a generation raised in the social welfare systems started in the 1970s and 1980s
End of the crack epidemic and a shift to a marijuana-based drug economy with a larger consumer base and less competition
Advances in emergency medicine allowing more victims to survive
A further reduction in the lead contaminates in the environment