What's up with people in Chicago (racist, accepted, street)

[A2DAC1985]

Originally Posted by DipGrant

...Different story in Chicago. I can not think of the times I counted where I saw white people crossing the street while I was approaching them. On a packed CTA red line train during rush hour you can see all the white folks either choosing to stand rather than take a clear open seat with a black man. Not just me. I just found it so amazing, I was telling myself. " did all the closet covert racists decide to move to the north side of Chicago"?...

Hi. My name is A2DAC, and I'm a white male north side resident.

I left the Loop yesterday at 6 on a packed Brown line train. I try to move to the middle of the train if there's no place to sit. After about 20 minutes there were finally enough people that got off for a few seats to open up. One such seat happened to be next to a black man that I was standing near. Do you know Bubbles from The Wire? He looked like him. Dirty hair, dirty hoodie, dirty pants that were at least 3 sizes too big, and two hands firmly planted inside said pants but not inside the boxers. I asked the elderly white man standing next to me on this still rather full train, if he was going to sit down. He said no after taking a look at who his seat mate would be.

I sat down.

The man took a break from warming his hands in his pants to look at me with a tinge of shock, as if his ploy to keep the adjacent seat vacant was full proof. I was shocked that no one else wanted to take the seat.

Does that make me racist? Or prejudiced of racists? Or racially prejudicial? Prejudiced of reverse racists? Reverse prejudice? I need to know how I'm making other people's lives hell so I can feel guilty about it.

[DoneWithDallas]

Let me expand on what I said earlier, rather than recognize I feel witness would be a better term.

I agree about immersing in it. There are countries who dislike Americans. I'm not a fan of people from Colorado because I've had bad experiences with a few from there but do I think that every Colorado native is like the others? No.

Thats my point exactly. We are all American citizens. Our skin color doesn't make us any more un-human or un-American. We share the American culture. Sure, I didn't appreciate the woman at taco cabana who called me a "white b***h" because I didnt want pico on my quesadilla but I didn't take that as racism. I think the OP isn't aware of the difference between someone being racist and someone holding a purse.

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by Plzeň

Very well said and true on all points. The corollary to your last statement is that people who have chosen to stay immersed only in their own culture without exposure to diversity, particularly when that culture is the majority one, are more likely to hold bigoted views. Hence the OP experiencing this more in some neighborhoods than others.

Agreed, although I do contend that you should be very careful about being too self conscious about these things, especially about one or two of the things the OP has said which I do not see a tie to racism. As others have stated, sometimes it has nothing to do with race, but with gender too.

Anyway, if you want to stop racism, I think the best way is to work with people on a common goal before they start to realize racism is stupid. One of my favorite stories of this is about a former Neo Nazi who went to jail (forget why) and when he came out, he needed a job. This jewish guy ended up hiring him to do work for his business. The owner ended up being really nice, gave him bonuses when he worked long hours and did a great job, drove him to and from work, etc. The neo nazi said he'd actually never met a jew before that, he just had heard about "bad things" and read "bad things." He said he was driving to work one day with the guy and looked over and realized the guy he hated was helping him back on his feet, driving him to and from work, giving him extra money, etc and looked at all his Nazi tattoos and had an epiphany that racism was extremely stupid.

[DoneWithDallas]

Originally Posted by Plzeň

If you're white, that obliviousness comes from the fact that privilege is invisible to those who have it. I'm a white person who used to be in the same boat until I started truly listening and learning about racism. I would recommend reading some of Derald Wing Sue's work on microaggressions if you're interested in learning more. These are small incidents of discrimination that are generally invisible to us in the majority, but can have a very negative impact on those who experience them over and over, repeatedly, for long periods of time.

Yes, I'm white but that doesn't make me any more privileged than the next. I understand and I sympathize and in today's day and age no one should ever have to feel discriminated against. My point is rather than point fingers people first have to stop and realize how they might come off to others as well.

But when does it come to the point of having to censor everything we say / read/ write in order to make sure we dont offend anyone, if it might come across as racist?

[Plzeň]

Originally Posted by DoneWithDallas

Yes, I'm white but that doesn't make me any more privileged than the next.

It absolutely does. As a fellow white person, I certainly understand not feeling privileged, because again it's invisible to those who have it, but it most certainly exists. Denial of this is a major part of the reason we still have racism. Even the fact that you haven't had to notice racism is a significant privilege.

[DoneWithDallas]

Originally Posted by Plzeň

It absolutely does. As a fellow white person, I certainly understand not feeling privileged, because again it's invisible to those who have it, but it most certainly exists. Denial of this is a major part of the reason we still have racism. Even the fact that you haven't had to notice racism is a significant privilege.

Privilege is in the eye of the beholder. I know I'm privileged, I thank God everyday for my life but those who feel less privileged can also work for making a change in their life rather than complaining about it. I've worked just as hard to get where I'm at today rather than someone who has had privilege handed to them. But by you stating that by being white makes one automatically more privileged than the next is too a reason why racism exist.

[lenniel]

Originally Posted by A2DAC1985

Hi. My name is A2DAC, and I'm a white male north side resident.

I left the Loop yesterday at 6 on a packed Brown line train. I try to move to the middle of the train if there's no place to sit. After about 20 minutes there were finally enough people that got off for a few seats to open up. One such seat happened to be next to a black man that I was standing near. Do you know Bubbles from The Wire? He looked like him. Dirty hair, dirty hoodie, dirty pants that were at least 3 sizes too big, and two hands firmly planted inside said pants but not inside the boxers. I asked the elderly white man standing next to me on this still rather full train, if he was going to sit down. He said no after taking a look at who his seat mate would be.

I sat down.

The man took a break from warming his hands in his pants to look at me with a tinge of shock, as if his ploy to keep the adjacent seat vacant was full proof. I was shocked that no one else wanted to take the seat.

Does that make me racist? Or prejudiced of racists? Or racially prejudicial? Prejudiced of reverse racists? Reverse prejudice? I need to know how I'm making other people's lives hell so I can feel guilty about it.

Sounds like you sat next to a bum. I wouldn't have sat down next to him either...black, white, brown, whatever, I just don't like bums.

[Plzeň]

Originally Posted by DoneWithDallas

But by you stating that by being white makes one automatically more privileged than the next is too a reason why racism exist.

No, this is simply an understood truth in the social sciences. Again, you're shooting the messenger when you accuse someone who points out racism of racism. Attempting to deflect from the truth does not change the truth.

[DoneWithDallas]

Originally Posted by Plzeň

No, this is simply an understood truth in the social sciences. Again, you're shooting the messenger when you accuse someone who points out racism of racism. Attempting to deflect from the truth does not change the truth.

I'm not accusing anyone. I just don't think that white skin equates to privilege. I don't believe that truth. I find it to be a close minded "truth" and a factor in why racism exist. Now with that said I'm not accusing you of racism or calling you close minded.. just to be clear. You can be black, hispanic, asian, russian, etc and be just as privileged.

[Chi-town Native]

Originally Posted by Plzeň

No, this is simply an understood truth in the social sciences. Again, you're shooting the messenger when you accuse someone who points out racism of racism. Attempting to deflect from the truth does not change the truth.

Social sciences are not science the same way biology or chemistry is. I think it is on you to actually provide some information supporting your claim, because truth can be a pretty subjective concept.

My personal opinion is if you are defining privilege as "an absence of outward discrimination," then the answer is yes.

If you are referring to some form of actual tangible benefit, it's no. You don't have to look any further than Appalachia to see many generations of people of european stock who are hopelessly mired in poverty.

What is missing from the usual "white" this or that is an acknowledgment that not all Europeans came here under ideal situations. Some came as indentured servants, some were fleeing persecution, famine, war, etc.

I think the WASP power structure has done a magnificent job of shifting blame for their crimes on to what used to be known as the "white ethnics."