Berwyn YES or NO... fill me in!!! (Chicago, Cicero: loans, motel)
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I'm curious if someone can give me a synopsis of the major neighborhoods in Berwyn, I've been lurking here for a while. My wife and I are moving to Chicago in a few months and Berwyn seems to have a lot of cute places in our likely price range.
By no means all inclusive, or even formal, but a few of the generally accepted definitions of the neighborhoods ...
Proksa Park -- Bordered by Harlem to the west, Oak Park Ave. to the east, CN tracks to the north, and BNSF tracks to the south. The homes here are mostly Chicago bungalows built in the 1920s and there are some very ornate and interesting ones, for example on 2800-3200 blocks of Maple. There are a few plainer flat faced bungalows but largely they are octagons and rounded fronts with leaded and stained glass windows. Many still have their original ceramic tile roofs. This neighborhood is served by the city's top scoring elementary and middle schools -- Emerson and Heritage. Proksa Park itself is a really great and large park. And the neighborhood is also right near the BNSF Metra line. For these reasons, this area is considered very desirable.
Depot District -- Harlem to the west, East Ave. to the east, Ogden to the south, and the BNSF tracks to the north. This is the oldest Berwyn neighborhood and was built up in the late 1800s and early 1900s by wealthy ex-Chicago doctors and lawyers who wanted to get away from the City when Berwyn looked more like Lemont than the built up neighborhood it resembles today. A lot of larger and interesting Victorians, which are generally on the city's largest lots. MacNeal Hospital and the "Depot" business district are in this area.
Riverside Drive -- Riverside Drive itself starts roughly at Harlem and 29th and curves in a north east fashion over to Cermak and Oak Park. There are some very beautiful homes on the Drive, including many very interesting variations of the Chicago bungalow built during the 1920s era. There's also a cool house made of Indiana limestone that was recently restored. I'd consider the neighborhood itself to be bordered by Harlem to the west, Cermak Road to the north, the CN tracks to the south, and Wesley Avenue to the east.
Gold Coast -- Roughly 16th St. to the north, Cermak Rd. to the south, Harlem to the west and Oak Park Ave. to the east. This neighborhood has some very sharp bungalows with all kinds of cool features (such as arched front windows with leaded and stained glass throughout), particularly between Harlem and Clinton. It's not by the Metra but on warmer days you can walk to Blue Line in Oak Park, or take the bus down Harlem or Oak Park Ave. and get to the Blue Line relatively quickly.
The far northern portion of Berwyn between Roosevelt and 16th St. has more variety of housing stock. There are of course the traditional 1920s Chicago brick bungalows (particularly on the west end), as well as a lot of their pre-1920s wood frame and stucco predecessors. There are smaller wood frame homes as well. The houses here are generally on narrower lots than on the south side and the neighborhood thus feels more urban and dense as a result, not unlike Logan Square. Many “urban visionaries” moving into Berwyn from the City are attracted to this area to its walkability to the Blue Line in Oak Park and the fact that it feels, in general, a lot like a Chicago neighborhood. Roosevelt Road seems to be taking off as a business district as a result, which should help this area grow further.
The far south portion between Ogden and Pershing has the feel of a working class south side neighborhood. The housing stock here is a mix of Chicago bungalows and a lot of post-WWII ranches. It reminds me a lot of Garfield Ridge or Archer Heights.
The far east portion north of Ogden start looking more like Cicero's housing stock. The majority of the homes on the east side are genuine Chicago style brick bungalows but they tend more towards the flat faced, less ornate kinds, versus the octagon, round and other more fancy styles you see further west in the city. They are still an interesting form of housing, and the east side is easily accessible to the Pink Line at 54th/Cermak in Cicero.
Thanks Bru and Chet! While I have no interest in engaging in the "OMG there are brown people, it must be scary" dialog that seems like has gone on here in the past, are any of these neighborhoods generally seen as rougher places to live, especially regarding property crimes like theft and vandalism? While I am very much looking forward to living in/near Chicago, I'm a bit of a small town kid, so trying to grasp all the nuances is tricky!
Thanks Bru and Chet! While I have no interest in engaging in the "OMG there are brown people, it must be scary" dialog that seems like has gone on here in the past, are any of these neighborhoods generally seen as rougher places to live, especially regarding property crimes like theft and vandalism? While I am very much looking forward to living in/near Chicago, I'm a bit of a small town kid, so trying to grasp all the nuances is tricky!
Most of that dialog tends to come from former residents who didn't like the demographic changes that occurred over the past two decades. You'd practically need a special dictionary to decipher all of the "code words" in those posts but when you boil them down, they are more fear based than reality based. We've lived here for almost 8 years now and have had no crime saving for a garage tagging back in early 2004. I'd sum it up as a lot safer than other urban communities I've lived in.
There's no particular bad area per se but rental buildings in urban communities can have problem tenants depending on how diligent the landlord is. In Berwyn, the multi-family properties are mostly located in a square between Cermak and 16th and Kenilworth and East. There are also a lot of them located along Harlem.
Not that Berwyn's apartments are horrible but if you're looking near those areas I'd be extra diligent in checking out the block you'd be abutting before buying. Poorly maintained buildings are usually a sign of a landlord who doesn't care much. And if they don't care about the building, that often isn't a good sign as to how they screen tenants.
I wouldn't overthink the "nuances" unless you plan to move to East Garfield Park on the west side of Chicago or somewhere like that. In any urban area, Berwyn included, you'll just need to use more common sense than you would in, say, Stillman Valley. Don't leave your expen$ive mountain bike sitting on your back porch, don't leave your garage open, don't stagger home drunk at 4 a.m. through the alley while updating your Facebook status on your new I-Pad, keep aware of your surroundings when walking around late at night, etc. Visiting the particular block you're considering during the day and night to get a feel for it and talking to local residents is also never a bad idea.
Most of that dialog tends to come from former residents who didn't like the demographic changes that occurred over the past two decades. You'd practically need a special dictionary to decipher all of the "code words" in those posts but when you boil them down, they are more fear based than reality based. We've lived here for almost 8 years now and have had no crime saving for a garage tagging back in early 2004. I'd sum it up as a lot safer than other urban communities I've lived in.
There's no particular bad area per se but rental buildings in urban communities can have problem tenants depending on how diligent the landlord is. In Berwyn, the multi-family properties are mostly located in a square between Cermak and 16th and Kenilworth and East. There are also a lot of them located along Harlem.
Not that Berwyn's apartments are horrible but if you're looking near those areas I'd be extra diligent in checking out the block you'd be abutting before buying. Poorly maintained buildings are usually a sign of a landlord who doesn't care much. And if they don't care about the building, that often isn't a good sign as to how they screen tenants.
I wouldn't overthink the "nuances" unless you plan to move to East Garfield Park on the west side of Chicago or somewhere like that. In any urban area, Berwyn included, you'll just need to use more common sense than you would in, say, Stillman Valley. Don't leave your expen$ive mountain bike sitting on your back porch, don't leave your garage open, don't stagger home drunk at 4 a.m. through the alley while updating your Facebook status on your new I-Pad, keep aware of your surroundings when walking around late at night, etc. Visiting the particular block you're considering during the day and night to get a feel for it and talking to local residents is also never a bad idea.
Thanks again, you seem very happy there. Which just leaves my other questions Any realtor recommendations/condemnations?
For the Berwyn one the previous sale price was $102k in 2005, Sold last December for $23,900.
Ours is in Cicero, purchased for a similar price in 2005 (15yrs, 20% down). We have negative rental cash flow of about $200, seriously starting to consider an strategic default...
For the Berwyn one the previous sale price was $102k in 2005, Sold last December for $23,900.
Ours is in Cicero, purchased for a similar price in 2005 (15yrs, 20% down). We have negative rental cash flow of about $200, seriously starting to consider an strategic default...
The condo market is a bloodbath, here and everywhere. The examples you cite are substantially below the condo market averages (FP is 119k and Berwyn is 102k) but yes, it is bad. Berwyn didn't have a ton of condo conversions. The apartments are smaller and less attractive for conversion than Oak Park (which saw a ton of them).
I looked at lofts in the South Loop in 2002-03 before deciding to modernize a bungalow instead (back then the cheaper option). Almost every unit I looked at had been purchased 3-5 years before for substantially less money than the current asking price (sometimes an 80-100k difference!). That led me to believe that the whole thing was being driven by people expecting to stay a short amount of time and then flip for a huge profit. That made me nervous, which turned out to be the correct reaction.
Condos are in a Catch-22 in that banks won't write mortgages on them if they're over a certain % renter occupied or under a certain % occupied. An increasingly difficult problem with the condo glut and the number of foreclosures. And if a unit is empty guess who takes up the slack for property taxes and repairs? A lot of people whose lives fit into a small space are just deciding to rent.
The good news is the rental market is improving so if you only paid 100k, you may be alright if rental demand continues to rise, which it should. Look at the bright side -- at least you didn't pay $250k for a 900 square foot space in an overbuilt flavor of the month area. Instead of a $200 gap (actually not bad for a 15 year mortgage) you could be looking at $1,200 gap or worse.
Be careful on the SD. A lot of people think that's an easy answer but banks are getting reluctant to do short sales and "deeds in lieu" which waive their right to a deficiency judgment. And who knows how they might change bankruptcy laws after the dust of this housing debacle settles.
So, I'm gathering from what was just said that, if I'm considering either a moderately priced house in Berwyn or a Condo (likely not in Berwyn) people here would vote detached home?
So, I'm gathering from what was just said that, if I'm considering either a moderately priced house in Berwyn or a Condo (likely not in Berwyn) people here would vote detached home?
The historic pattern in most of the region has been for single family detached housing to perform FAR BETTER than any kind of condo or town home. As Bru hints this is especially true in Berwyn. Historically thrifty eastern Europeans (many from the Bohemia region of Czechoslovokia) often paid cash for their homes and the thought of paying into a "HOA" for common elements violates there sense of independent savings. The small number of rental units in Berwyn is one of the reasons I do not fear it is as at risk as other inner burbs.
Even during the run up in development of condo over the last decade the imploded scars of failed development have pocked little of Berwyn's core...
Single family ought to be weighed against similar size homes in nearby south Oak Park -- even if you do not ever have kids the additional appeal of the much more well known schools (especially OPRF HS) prove especially valuable to resale.
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Any realtor recommendations/condemnations?
Absolutely!!!
