Were the Buick 430ci V8's, Pontiac 428ci V8's and the Oldsmobile 425ci V8's good motors? (engines, Chevy)
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Ihad a 1965 olds 98 that i beat every day for about a year and a half ,and i never hurt that engine. Just my opinion ,i think that was a better built engine that the 425-430 buick -421-428 pontiac engine. Ihad all 3 brands and the buicks had oil pressure problems,the ponchos had timing chain problems. Stock for stock i think the oldsmobile engines held up better. Now i had all three engine brands ,and all were torque engines .Had a 68 grand-prix with the 428 and highway gears that made my take off pretty slow. But after you get up to about 65-70 mph and floor it it comes on like a cannon. Loved that car on the highway.The 98 would brake torque like crazy.
As cited above, they didn't have very good breathing heads. Even the Pontiac 428 Super Duty heads were anemic compared to a big block Chevy 427, Ford 427 and 428, or 426 Chrysler wedge.
I never knew these engines I've mentioned in the OP didn't have very good breathing heads and that the Pontiac 428 Super Duty were anemic compared to the better known big block Chevy 427, Ford 427 and 428 and the 426 Chrysler motor, you sure don't hear a lot about the Pontiac 428's and now I can see why
Common sense says you can build more power with more cubes. But that is not what the OP asked. This is what he asked," Were the Buick 430ci V8's, Pontiac 428ci V8's and the Oldsmobile 425ci V8's good motors?" And it has been answered that for their day they were torque motors.
If all out power is what you want you build a Dart Big Block Chevy N/A just like 90% of the Pro Stock racers do.
They're are lots of Die Hard Ford guys who worship the 427 SO but the 385 Series makes more power because it is a better breathing engine just like the BB Chevy breathes better than the old Buick, Pontiac, Olds engines.
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I did have a feeling that the Buick 430, Pontiac 428 and the Oldsmobile 425's were torque motors rather than high performance motors, wasn't that also the case with the 429 Ford engine? With your post I now understand why the 427 Chevy was more popular than the other engines
I never knew these engines I've mentioned in the OP didn't have very good breathing heads and that the Pontiac 428 Super Duty were anemic compared to the better known big block Chevy 427, Ford 427 and 428 and the 426 Chrysler motor, you sure don't hear a lot about the Pontiac 428's and now I can see why
When someone finds a 428 Pontiac Super Duty, I know alot of Ppntiac guys would like to see this previously unknown engine. There were 421SD and 455 SD engines, but never a 428 SD. There almost was a 428 RAM AIR V engine, and it would have been the most powerful engine gm ever put in a car up to that time, but the management over at crybaby division (chevy) got wind of it and went to the gm board and got it killed before going into production.
I did have a feeling that the Buick 430, Pontiac 428 and the Oldsmobile 425's were torque motors rather than high performance motors, wasn't that also the case with the 429 Ford engine? With your post I now understand why the 427 Chevy was more popular than the other engines
The ford 429 came with a couple of different head packages. The most notable was the Boss Heads that everyone knows simply because of the huge cast valve covers. but there where several other head castings as well.
I believe it was the 70 models that came with the D0VE heads and these flowed huge amounts of air for a stock head.
The BBC 427 and 454 along with the Ford 429 and 460 where really the motors to have back then. The 425's 455' 421 etc where all decent motors for moving those huge slugs of cars. They made great torque which is what they where designed to do. When you start asking for big HP numbers their limitations show up pretty quick. Poor head designs, weak rods, pistons, and blocks all show up pretty quick. it's pretty common to break rods and even cranks on the 455 Pontiac around 500HP. The webbing on the 455 Blocks would fail around 600HPin NA combos or 500HP is you tried to spray it.
For the Mopar guys. The 440 and obviously the 426 motors where extremely strong with great heads.
Last edited by johna01374; 04-21-2011 at 10:53 AM..
Until 1968 Pontiac big blocks had closed combustion chambers with much shrouding of the valves. FYI. A reason why the 389heads are not as a favored as the 400CID.
The ford 429 came with a couple of different head packages. The most notable was the Boss Heads that everyone knows simply because of the huge cast valve covers. but there where several other head castings as well.
I believe it was the 70 models that came with the D0VE heads and these flowed huge amounts of air for a stock head.
The BBC 427 and 454 along with the Ford 429 and 460 where really the motors to have back then. The 425's 455' 421 etc where all decent motors for moving those huge slugs of cars. They made great torque which is what they where designed to do. When you start asking for big HP numbers their limitations show up pretty quick. Poor head designs, weak rods, pistons, and blocks all show up pretty quick. it's pretty common to break rods and even cranks on the 455 Pontiac around 500HP. The webbing on the 455 Blocks would fail around 600HPin NA combos or 500HP is you tried to spray it.
For the Mopar guys. The 440 and obviously the 426 motors where extremely strong with great heads.
I'm going to punch some holes in the bs on the Pontiac 455's you just posted. First the hp level did not make a difference on when parts break or don't break. Pisspoor machining, trying to turn too much rpm when it wasn't needed, poor bearing prep and clearences, those were more the fault of the idiots putting those engines together and blowing them up than design limits or bad cranks. I have a 455 with a stock "N" 1974 crank that makes over 850 hp. The block and crank has held up fine for 3 years of racing every other weekend. Bearings were checked last winter and they looked and spec'ed out as new. Everyone said that engine would fail and blow the main webs out on the dyno. At 857hp and 7500 rpm, it hasn't yet. It's just a run of the mill 1974 455 block and crank with propper machine work. Same good quality machine work we put into any brand of engine.
If you know someone that blew up one of these blocks under 750 hp, then it was poor machine work and pure stupidity. btw, the car (63 Tempest)weighs 3100 lbs with driver and the 455 (now 468) and runs in the 8.30's. With nos, it could go into the 7's, but I don't use the stuff. That's a tough stock block regardless of brand.
The one weak point in a stock 455 Pontiac? the connecting rods, but if you are building a high performance/race engine, you never use the stock stuff anyway, no matter what brand of engine. Oh i've seen plenty of peope use stock forged chevy mopar and ford rods, then wonder why they blow up. I'll say it again, most engine blow ups are the result of bad machine work and or bearing clearence and wrong parts selection, usually from trying to save a few bucks on the build. Regardless of brand of engine, all can be built to run very competitive with every other brand if careful planning and using that engine design's strong points as the base of where you build it. I could be one of the few to build 6 850+hp stock block Pontiacs, I don't know, frankly don't care. But when i hear pure bs about any engine on strenght it does make me wonder about where it came from. I build them all, but yes, the Pontiac is my favorite.
On the Mopar engines, the HEMI 426 heads were designed after the MIckey Thompson HEMI Pontiac heads. In 69 and 70 there were some Plymouth engineers over at Pontiac working with Pontiac engineers to redevelope the hemi style heads (cover of HOT ROD magazine in 1970 showed the exterior of the hemi headed Pontiac engine). Thank John Delorean and his brother at Chrysler for that collaberation. Of course once word reached front offices, that was cancelled. That head became an aluminum head used in top fuel and alcohol drag cars on the Hemi blocks. There was also a bid by Chysler during that time to try and buy the Pontiac division from gm. It would have been a better move for Pontiac, but gm wouldn't sell with the Pontiac engine and Chrysler wouldn't buy the division without the engine design as they realized it made Pontiac a Pontiac. Something gm couldn't figure out.
Until 1968 Pontiac big blocks had closed combustion chambers with much shrouding of the valves. FYI. A reason why the 389heads are not as a favored as the 400CID.
1967 was the first open chamber PONTIAC HEADS. The 061 castings were the first. The 67 670 400 heads were closed chambers and many big car 400's got left over 389 heads from 66. The 061 casting's chambers later became the base for the RAM AIR II and RAM AIR IV heads. 1968 all Pontiac V8's got open chamber heads. You are correct, the closed chamber heads on not only Pontiacs, but any brand of engine are very much shrouding the valves. But I like taking closed chamber heads and modifing them into the later style and far better fast burn type chambers with a few upgrades that result in a very complete combustion and always makes more power even with the 1.5-2.25 points less compression.
,,,,There was also a bid by Chysler during that time to try and buy the Pontiac division from gm. It would have been a better move for Pontiac, but gm wouldn't sell with the Pontiac engine and Chrysler wouldn't buy the division without the engine design as they realized it made Pontiac a Pontiac. Something gm couldn't figure out.
Chrysler would have likely dropped the Pontiac engine and tried to shoehorn a 318 in.
Look at what Chrysler did to the poor little Sunbeam Alpine, bought up a company with a winning car. They realise that the Ford V8 had to go, but then realised their V8 could not fit so scrap the car line all together.
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