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Since the BB Chevy has become the dominant engine (OK Motor for gearheads)in Drag racing and Modified Stock car racing I would hardly call them boat anchors.
I can understand the attachment some can have for the "motors " of the past and for any cars they might have or still own but those engines the OP questioned have outlived their once dominance and popularity.
Just like the T shirt says, "the older I get the faster I was" the same holds true for the memories of the engines (motors) from the past.
This really is true.
All you need to do is look at the pocket rockets of today. A basically stock SRT4 Neon or Mazda 3 would kill 95% of the muscle cars we're all so fond of. They dont build them like they use to for a reason. That's why my 72 monte is getting a 427 LS swap next winter. 505HP and 20+ mpg.
right now I have 4 850+hp stock block Pontiac engines that I've built. Amd 1 is the much under rated 301 Turbo block. All are N/A, and 1 is going to be used with nos. It has already ran 8.37 @ 167mph in a 3000 lb car.
There is a reason to keep the older big engines= because anything you can do with a smaller c.i.d. engine will always be even more power with the big engines
right now I have 4 850+hp stock block Pontiac engines that I've built. Amd 1 is the much under rated 301 Turbo block. All are N/A, and 1 is going to be used with nos. It has already ran 8.37 @ 167mph in a 3000 lb car.
There is a reason to keep the older big engines= because anything you can do with a smaller c.i.d. engine will always be even more power with the big engines
Common sense says you can build more power with more cubes. But that is not what the OP asked. This is what he asked," Were the Buick 430ci V8's, Pontiac 428ci V8's and the Oldsmobile 425ci V8's good motors?" And it has been answered that for their day they were torque motors.
If all out power is what you want you build a Dart Big Block Chevy N/A just like 90% of the Pro Stock racers do.
They're are lots of Die Hard Ford guys who worship the 427 SO but the 385 Series makes more power because it is a better breathing engine just like the BB Chevy breathes better than the old Buick, Pontiac, Olds engines.
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The BBC was a boat anchor,it weighed too much and in the Chevelle was slower than a Similar bodied GS.
Of course the GS was also loaded to the gills with creature comforts and STILL blew the doors off of the Chevelle.
The Stage 1 455 put out 510 pounds of torque stock.
The 455 weighs about 150 pounds LESS than a BBC.
Valve size was intake 2.125" and exhaust 1.750" for the Stage 1.
A rectangular port head BBC was intake 2.19" and exhaust 1.88"
A few things here....
The Buick 455 made that 510 ft lbs of torque at a very low 2800 rpms. So it did have more scoot power than the 454.
The rectangular port heads were for the high winding 454's (aka LS6) and were designed to see more power upstairs as opposed to the Buick's downstairs power.
But yes in all essence, the Buick 455 for 1970 was probably the real king of the street but never got the street credit it deserved. Probably because they were written off as Aunt Nettie's grocery getter, and not a true performance car.
Also by todays standards, the BBC's of the 1970's are obsolete; if you want big block power, you look at a 502 or a 572. Or you build a 496 out of a 454.
The Buick 455 made that 510 ft lbs of torque at a very low 2800 rpms. So it did have more scoot power than the 454.
The rectangular port heads were for the high winding 454's (aka LS6) and were designed to see more power upstairs as opposed to the Buick's downstairs power.
But yes in all essence, the Buick 455 for 1970 was probably the real king of the street but never got the street credit it deserved. Probably because they were written off as Aunt Nettie's grocery getter, and not a true performance car.
Also by todays standards, the BBC's of the 1970's are obsolete; if you want big block power, you look at a 502 or a 572. Or you build a 496 out of a 454.
Yes the Buick was...a Buick and so not looked at by some as performance cars,of course the price of the car was higher too.
What blew me away was the factory information available on how to get your car to run faster in the 1/4 mile,I had a copy of the factory book where factory engineers worked out what needed to be done...what gears to have,how to adjust the quadrajet for best performance,etc.
Pretty cool to think the factory offered such info for it's customers.
Yeah...I think the Stage 1 455 in 1970 and the intercooled turbocharged V6's offered in 1986-87 are the two times in history where Buick actually made a joke that turned out to not be funny to the competitor.
Even more so are the Stage 1 and 2 V6 blocks.
I want to get my hands on a 1970 Skylark 2 door or GS 2 door and do up a nice 455.
Common sense says you can build more power with more cubes. But that is not what the OP asked. This is what he asked," Were the Buick 430ci V8's, Pontiac 428ci V8's and the Oldsmobile 425ci V8's good motors?" And it has been answered that for their day they were torque motors.
If all out power is what you want you build a Dart Big Block Chevy N/A just like 90% of the Pro Stock racers do.
They're are lots of Die Hard Ford guys who worship the 427 SO but the 385 Series makes more power because it is a better breathing engine just like the BB Chevy breathes better than the old Buick, Pontiac, Olds engines.
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I don't have to build an all out dart spreadbore block. Oh, they call it a bbc, but nothing interchanges with the bbc. The milder bracket and top sportsman guys will build a bbc based dart engine, with stock or 4.990 bore spacing. But it's a 25-30k investment. Modern Pontiac engine breathe better than the old ones too. Like the heads I work with on Pontiac engines; www.rolandracing.com , And currently working on a raised port race version of this head. So far on this design, I have made 934 hp on a 385" Pontiac short deck engine. The tunnel ram was base on my design perimiters, angles/taper in the runners, etc. Aported version was just dyno'ed and it out powered a big name sheetmetal tunnel ram. There will be more to come!
I don't have to build an all out dart spreadbore block. Oh, they call it a bbc, but nothing interchanges with the bbc. The milder bracket and top sportsman guys will build a bbc based dart engine, with stock or 4.990 bore spacing. But it's a 25-30k investment. Modern Pontiac engine breathe better than the old ones too. Like the heads I work with on Pontiac engines; www.rolandracing.com , And currently working on a raised port race version of this head. So far on this design, I have made 934 hp on a 385" Pontiac short deck engine. The tunnel ram was base on my design perimiters, angles/taper in the runners, etc. Aported version was just dyno'ed and it out powered a big name sheetmetal tunnel ram. There will be more to come!
This is all very impressive and those numbers you posted are great but you have drifted far away from the original post.
Good engine builders can always get maximum HP numbers out of not so typical engines.
Those engines the OP listed can be considered non typical because in their day they're were other engines that were easier to extract HP from.
You have obviously done a good job using those non typical engines and should be proud of your accomplishments.
Lets be honest most engine builders will go the easy route to HP and that would be both the SB and BB Chevy engines.
If you go to the Ford camp those guys think the 427 SO is the best engine Ford ever made but it has been out horsepowered by later canted valve engines.
This is all very impressive and those numbers you posted are great but you have drifted far away from the original post.
Good engine builders can always get maximum HP numbers out of not so typical engines.
Those engines the OP listed can be considered non typical because in their day they're were other engines that were easier to extract HP from.
You have obviously done a good job using those non typical engines and should be proud of your accomplishments.
Lets be honest most engine builders will go the easy route to HP and that would be both the SB and BB Chevy engines.
If you go to the Ford camp those guys think the 427 SO is the best engine Ford ever made but it has been out horsepowered by later canted valve engines.
Different strokes (no pun intended)
You are correct. I will say the SD421 crank in the Pontiac engine i posted is still doing what it was meant to do; Race! The SD421 had the same stroke as the 428 POntiac, difference was crankshaft material.
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