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View Poll Results: Jasper should NEVER outside
agree. Jasper should NEVER go outside. 9 50.00%
disagree. Jasper should be allowed out briefly. 9 50.00%
Voters: 18. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-11-2013, 08:05 PM
 
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Kudos to all. We had a great discussion about "indoor /outdoor".

Now, should we discuss "declawing"

No. That seems to be no middle ground there.

Thank you for participating.
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Old 03-11-2013, 08:11 PM
 
Location: In a house
13,250 posts, read 42,788,282 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasper12 View Post
Yes. I agree. He may get more adventurous. Which is why I monitor him.

So, for now, it will stay at ten minutes or less. And with supervision. I worry more about other cats. Jasper is declawed. He would be defenseless against any creatures. He is also very pampered.

It seems okay for now.

He is an indoor cat. I could never just let a cat wander, like all day outside if I was at work. I would worry all day.
Mine are always declawed too. The shelters around here usually have a few available for adoption with the condition that they be strictly indoor cats.

Since yours is also declawed, you'll need to just accept that you'll never be able to leave him out without you there to supervise.

BTW declawed cats are _not_ defenseless. They still have their back claws, which can shred skin from muscle, and their teeth, which can shred muscle from bone. They can climb UP trees (though climbing down presents some difficulty). They can also still run faster than dogs
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Old 03-11-2013, 11:09 PM
 
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Jasper was declawed on all four paws. I adopted him off CL, that way.

Which is why I feel very responsible for him. He is completely defenseless.

I have had cats with claws and cats without. I did not "seek" a declawed cat...I was looking for a Bengal or a Toyger. Jasper is such a sweet boy. I have no clue why anyone would get rid of him. Of course, I have no clue why anyone would get rid of any pet.
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Old 03-12-2013, 12:19 AM
 
102 posts, read 231,849 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasper12 View Post
Jasper was declawed on all four paws. I adopted him off CL, that way.

Which is why I feel very responsible for him. He is completely defenseless.

I have had cats with claws and cats without. I did not "seek" a declawed cat...I was looking for a Bengal or a Toyger. Jasper is such a sweet boy. I have no clue why anyone would get rid of him. Of course, I have no clue why anyone would get rid of any pet.
I don't believe that a declawed cat missing all claws has any business being outside.The risk is simply too great.
BTW There is no such thing as "monitoring" a cat . The reverse might be a more accurate description.

I believe that retaining a cat indoors prevents it from fighting with other animals , potential exposure to some of the feline illnesses , facing natures harsher elements , or encountering human obstacles (ranging from a careless driver to a inhumane person). These are domestic animals and even though a feral cat can attempt to adapt there is no substitute to a safe and loving home (as well as access to quality veterinary care).

Regarding declaw -- I don't agree with chopping off parts of a cat's foot to protect furniture . If one adopts him that way then neither were given a choice. Everything from a scratching post to claw mittens (like soft paws) are available . Cats won't even scratch certain types of furniture like leather and even if they did a couch is replaceable : a paw digit is not replaceable .

Last edited by yrralis1; 03-12-2013 at 01:01 AM..
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Old 03-12-2013, 12:41 PM
 
Location: Near Nashville TN
7,201 posts, read 14,995,469 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnonChick View Post

BTW declawed cats are _not_ defenseless. They still have their back claws, which can shred skin from muscle, and their teeth, which can shred muscle from bone.
But they cannot use these hind claws unless they can get a good GRIP on the animal attacking them. To get that grip takes front claws. As an example, make fists of your hands and try to get a good grip on someone. Now use your hand and fingers. Not exactly the same, but very close.


Quote:
They can climb UP trees (though climbing down presents some difficulty). They can also still run faster than dogs
Great difficulty. They can't get purchase with their mutilated stumps, especially once the tendons contract and deform the foot even more. They're like FINGERLESS children trying to climb the monkey bars - as my old vet put it.
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Old 03-12-2013, 01:27 PM
 
Location: Free From The Oppressive State
30,253 posts, read 23,742,275 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasper12 View Post
We all debate the "outdoor" "indoor" cat frequently...okay, what is the definition?

Jasper is in the house all of the time. I don't let him out when I am at work or at night.

Today, I went out to the car, and Jasper wanted some fresh air, I let him "out". I went back inside, closed the door. Ten minutes later, I hear his distinctive "Meow" at the door, he is done being an "outside" cat.

That is pretty much the extent of his outdoor adventures.

Now, some people would say Jasper should be inside ALL the time. His ten minutes of being outside was irresponsible of me. He could get lost or hurt. (Note: he goes under the same bush, and just hangs there).

What do you think?
I think cats like to go outside out of curiosity. If he wants to go outside, go out with him or maybe let him go out on a harness, (I do this with a cat of mine).

It depends on where you live.

I have a hard time in this debate because all growing up, we had an outdoor cat who got to come in on rare occasions, (night time, snow or really cold weather or if she got sick), but have lived in cities most of my adult life and know the dangers for animals out there.

Growing up, our cat would spend most of her days either in our yard or the neighbor's yard across the back alley, playing in her garden. The neighbor, an old lady, didn't seem to mind the cat one bit. My mom liked to do gardening and she and the cat formed a very tight bond as the cat would always come up to her while she was gardening and sprawl in the dirt to be petted.

The ONLY thing that ever happened to the cat, that I know of, was a dog chased her down. Luckily, I had just come home from school, walked in to the yard and saw the dog and the cat staring each other down on the back steps. At that time I was scared of dogs but saw that my cat's life was in danger so, without thinking, I marched right up to that dog as mean as I could and yelled at it to GET. AWAY. FROM. THE CAT. RIGHT!!!!! NOW!!!!!!!!!

That dog knew I was ticked and high tailed it out of there. Whew.

The cat thanked me for it later by coming up to my room and hopping up on my bed while I was trying to get to sleep for the night...something she never did. I felt honored.

Anyway, I digress...where were we....

It is possible for a cat to have a good, happy life outdoors. That cat lived to be pretty stinkin' old and like I said, lived outside almost her entire life.

However, I also know, I don't trust society as I once did and would never allow my cats outside now without me being there, with them, the entire time. Like I said, one can go out if she's on her harness, which she enjoys.

Cars, dogs, other animals, mean people, etc....all things to consider.

And while the cat may have only gone out for 10 minutes this time, keep doing it and expect that time to stretch out. The cat will get more and more brave with each outing.

If you live on a busy street...no way. If you live in the country...it's for you to decide what you think is best for your cat.
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Old 03-12-2013, 02:09 PM
 
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Cha-Cha had her front claws removed. She has no concept of danger. Everything is fun and her attention span is almost zero. She will have to settle for having the run of the house. ShadowCat knows "outside" as she was a street cat. So far she has not shown a lot of desire to get out. I cannot let one out and not the other. Lots of open windows, attention and dinner when their humans sneak out to the hot tub - full bellies = sleepy furries.
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Old 03-12-2013, 03:20 PM
 
102 posts, read 231,849 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by =^..^= View Post
Great difficulty. They can't get purchase with their mutilated stumps, especially once the tendons contract and deform the foot even more. They're like FINGERLESS children trying to climb the monkey bars - as my old vet put it.

Bingo !!

In the case of the cat Jasper he has all of his digits mutilated . He has already been traumatized by the previous owner who :1) chopped up his paw digits , 2) and then dumped him on Craigslist . In short this previous owner took it upon himself to choose his own selfish needs far above those of the animal .
I hope he has kids who dump him when hes old and no longer convenient to care for the same way he taught them this lesson via this voiceless creature.

So now Jasper is in a new home and for some odd reason the new owner wants to remind him of the outdoors ? He (or she) ignores the risks for what ? To (paraphrasing) "stretch its legs " ?
It's appaulling that the votes aren't unanimously against this .
Even if the cat loved the outdoors it's a life that a four paw decalwed cat can NEVER have . In my opinion it is cruel and inhumane .

So one obstacle was not enough ? The cat has to face this new hurdle with its new owner ?

As many stated "its her cat" but in my opinion this cat deserved better than its first owner and if this risky behavior is what it faces with the new owner then I feel nothing but pity for the animal and hope that my plea appeals to the owner enough to consider his/her pet's well being.
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Old 03-12-2013, 03:41 PM
 
Location: Free From The Oppressive State
30,253 posts, read 23,742,275 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yrralis1 View Post
Bingo !!

In the case of the cat Jasper he has all of his digits mutilated . He has already been traumatized by the previous owner who :1) chopped up his paw digits , 2) and then dumped him on Craigslist . In short this previous owner took it upon himself to choose his own selfish needs far above those of the animal .
I hope he has kids who dump him when hes old and no longer convenient to care for the same way he taught them this lesson via this voiceless creature.

So now Jasper is in a new home and for some odd reason the new owner wants to remind him of the outdoors ? He (or she) ignores the risks for what ? To (paraphrasing) "stretch its legs " ?
It's appaulling that the votes aren't unanimously against this .
Even if the cat loved the outdoors it's a life that a four paw decalwed cat can NEVER have . In my opinion it is cruel and inhumane .

So one obstacle was not enough ? The cat has to face this new hurdle with its new owner ?

As many stated "its her cat" but in my opinion this cat deserved better than its first owner and if this risky behavior is what it faces with the new owner then I feel nothing but pity for the animal and hope that my plea appeals to the owner enough to consider his/her pet's well being.
Dude, settle down. She already said she would be out there WITH the cat, not just leave it outside all day long.
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Old 03-12-2013, 11:52 PM
 
18,836 posts, read 37,368,760 times
Reputation: 26469
Quote:
Originally Posted by yrralis1 View Post
Bingo !!

In the case of the cat Jasper he has all of his digits mutilated . He has already been traumatized by the previous owner who :1) chopped up his paw digits , 2) and then dumped him on Craigslist . In short this previous owner took it upon himself to choose his own selfish needs far above those of the animal .
I hope he has kids who dump him when hes old and no longer convenient to care for the same way he taught them this lesson via this voiceless creature.

So now Jasper is in a new home and for some odd reason the new owner wants to remind him of the outdoors ? He (or she) ignores the risks for what ? To (paraphrasing) "stretch its legs " ?
It's appaulling that the votes aren't unanimously against this .
Even if the cat loved the outdoors it's a life that a four paw decalwed cat can NEVER have . In my opinion it is cruel and inhumane .

So one obstacle was not enough ? The cat has to face this new hurdle with its new owner ?

As many stated "its her cat" but in my opinion this cat deserved better than its first owner and if this risky behavior is what it faces with the new owner then I feel nothing but pity for the animal and hope that my plea appeals to the owner enough to consider his/her pet's well being.
Kudos. Well written and eloquently stated. I agree.

But, should I admit it? Jasper is just so hopelessly spoiled. I admit to being a terrible cat Mom, he just begs and begs until I feel so sorry for him I relent. He is like a little child, endlessly whining. If he was a child, I would probably send him to his room. But, he is not a child. He does not understand that his whining and begging drives me crazy...or maybe he does know..and no doubt, it is the classic backwards conditioning, of "rewarding" bad behavior by giving in and thus reinforcing the exact behavior.

He just comes and looks at me with his big eyes, and a specific "PLEEEEAAAASSSSSEEEEE" Meow. And he keeps it up. I know what he wants.

No win. Guilt if I deny him. Guilt if I give in.

And when I do give in, he is so happy. He goes out, rolls on the walk, cruises the patio area, and goes under his same bush, to just check it all out. I sometimes stay out with him for a few minutes, then have things to do..he will come to the door in about five or ten minutes...."Mom, where are you?". Then he will come in. Satisfied, for a week or so...and the cycle starts again.
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