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The narrative will continue to be "if only more people would just wear masks!" and nothing is going to change between now and when the vaccines....
You mean: if only people didn't fly to other states, if only people didn't gather together for holidays, if only people didn't shop shoulder to shoulder at Macy's, if only people didn't go to restaurants...
You mean: if only people didn't fly to other states, if only people didn't gather together for holidays, if only people didn't shop shoulder to shoulder at Macy's, if only people didn't go to restaurants...
The narrative has never just been about masks.
The worldwide data seem to indicate that even with varying levels of mask wearing, different countries not even having the same holidays, differing air travel rules, shopping rules, restaurants, etc., every single larger country not named China has a chart similar to our own, meaning a huge spike starting in November.
Is there something the entire world is collectively missing beyond the items you listed out, or was this spike just not avoidable? Not to say we should do nothing, but worldwide it seems not a single large country has been able to avoid this spike. Perhaps it's coincidence that everyone else is doing everything so horribly wrong too, but you would think someone would've gotten the combination right just out of sheer probability.
The worldwide data seem to indicate that even with varying levels of mask wearing, different countries not even having the same holidays, differing air travel rules, shopping rules, restaurants, etc., every single larger country not named China has a chart similar to our own
I don't look at Worldometers, so I don't know. I look at the data trackers that the L.A. Times and the New York Times put out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blockzilla
Is there something the entire world is collectively missing beyond the items you listed out, or was this spike just not avoidable?
I don't know. I realize that they predicted a spike in the winter everywhere in the U.S. due to weather, during which cases of flu have always increased in frequency. But if you look at other states, why say, in the past 14 days, does Tennessee have a higher confirmed case rate per 100 K than California, and Missouri has a much lower one? And the death rate per 100 K in Michigan is double ours, in New Mexico it's triple ours...and Hawaii has the lowest death rate in the country. What are states doing differently?
But this is the California forum, so I guess it's back to what we're doing here.
I don't look at Worldometers, so I don't know. I look at the data trackers that the L.A. Times and the New York Times put out.
I don't know. I realize that they predicted a spike in the winter everywhere in the U.S. due to weather, during which cases of flu have always increased in frequency. But if you look at other states, why say, in the past 14 days, does Tennessee have a higher confirmed case rate per 100 K than California, and Missouri has a much lower one? And the death rate per 100 K in Michigan is double ours, in New Mexico it's triple ours...and Hawaii has the lowest death rate in the country. What are states doing differently?
But this is the California forum, so I guess it's back to what we're doing here.
There do appear to be differences state by state, but they're also all having a spike. Why all of a sudden in each and every place is there a spike?
I'm aware this is the California forum, but the topic at hand is the spike in cases and what could/should be done about it. The worldwide data is relative to the discussion and is informative. You shouldn't discount the fact that everywhere in the world is having COVID spikes simply because it doesn't correlate to your current opinion of why we're having a local spike. It's also relevant because if any other countries were doing better, we could then model that approach.
The comparisons of case counts between states you are making are accurate, and that makes it even more confusing as to what exactly they are doing that is making a difference. Despite case counts, case rates, etc., if you simply look at a chart for each state they all have a huge spike starting at roughly the same time. No government measures would've stopped there from being a huge spike. We could do better, but the spike was going to happen.
People in CA didn't all collectively decide to break the rules at coincidentally the exact same time in November and start a spike. The data seem to indicate that a big spike was unavoidable, and our actions only would slightly modify how big the spike was going to be.
I think I'm just repeating myself so perhaps it is easier to, as you say, focus only on what we're doing here and not take a wider approach to problem solving. It's so much easier that way, then we can just blame it all on the "Trumpers".
There do appear to be differences state by state, but they're also all having a spike. Why all of a sudden in each and every place is there a spike?
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It has been in the news the last few days that a new version of the Covid 19 virus is spreading and while it is no worse people get infected faster and easier. The UK has shut down a lot of the country, So expect cases to climb.
(Bloomberg) -- The new Covid-19 strain that emerged in the U.K. is possibly already in the U.S., Germany, France and Switzerland, officials in those countries said. Ireland imposed new restrictions to stem an “extraordinary growth” in cases, and said the nation should act on the assumption that the new variant has arrived.
People in CA didn't all collectively decide to break the rules at coincidentally the exact same time in November and start a spike. The data seem to indicate that a big spike was unavoidable, and our actions only would slightly modify how big the spike was going to be.
I don't know about our actions only slightly modifying the spikes. A lot of Californians certainly haven't seemed to have followed the mandates since Halloween...nor does it seem as if they're doing so now.
Look at the link to the one minute public service clip embedded in this article. Are the majority of Californians doing any of these things to protect themselves and others?
“It feels like we’re drowning here,” said Rao, a pulmonologist and critical care specialist at Keck Hospital of USC.
And there’s a fear that if the post-Christmas increase in cases is anything like the post-Thanksgiving bump, the worst may be yet to come.
“I look around at my colleagues’ faces and there’s a hollowness in their eyes, a fatigue,” said Rao. “There’s a resounding feeling of, ‘What’s next, and how do I brace myself for what’s next?’”
I think we owe Rao and his medical colleagues an apology. Better yet, we owe them more responsible behavior. At the worst moment in the most horrific pandemic in a hundred years, too many of us aren’t playing it safe. In recent days, airport traffic has spiked and shopping malls are bustling, even as the L.A. County death toll hit 9,000.
Just my opinion, but it’s bustling and people are out and about for a number of reasons.
This isn’t “new” anymore. People are getting desensitized to the whole thing. When you’re barraged constantly with news about how bad everything is, you start to ignore it. Plus homebound fatigue has set in.
There’s a sense that this is over blown by a large number of people. I don’t know anyone that’s been infected. I know of a friend of a friend type of thing, but those cases were mild. And yes I understand people have died from this.
The old thing about the cure being worse than the disease. We’re getting to that point. The economy is being destroyed for a disease that’s 98% survivable. More than that if you’re under 65. And the posters here that constantly berate people that mention the economy probably still have their jobs. I’d like to see them if they lost their businesses or livelihoods.
People see the leaders telling everyone to stay put and stay in. Then they get caught going the opposite. It’s not just Newsom. It’s all around the country. Then you had protests that were given a wink and a nod.
Newsom and his constantly changing restrictions. Open close, open, close. Color tiers, no let’s do regional tiers. It’s like he’s reacting and is flailing around not know what to do. Business owners can’t keep up.
From what I’ve seen, people aren’t listening anymore. They are masking up near me, but no one is staying home. Now they’re starting to say you still have to wear a mask after the vaccine is out. Sorry, no. If you think non compliance is bad now, wait until next summer when everyone that wants to be vaccinated has been. If any restrictions are left, they will be completely ignored.
Just my opinion, but it’s bustling and people are out and about for a number of reasons.
This isn’t “new” anymore. People are getting desensitized to the whole thing. When you’re barraged constantly with news about how bad everything is, you start to ignore it. Plus homebound fatigue has set in.
There’s a sense that this is over blown by a large number of people. I don’t know anyone that’s been infected. I know of a friend of a friend type of thing, but those cases were mild. And yes I understand people have died from this. I know of a friend of a friend type of thing, but those cases were mild. And yes I understand people have died from this.
The old thing about the cure being worse than the disease. We’re getting to that point. The economy is being destroyed for a disease that’s 98% survivable. More than that if you’re under 65. And the posters here that constantly berate people that mention the economy probably still have their jobs. I’d like to see them if they lost their businesses or livelihoods.
People see the leaders telling everyone to stay put and stay in. Then they get caught going the opposite. It’s not just Newsom. It’s all around the country. Then you had protests that were given a wink and a nod.
Newsom and his constantly changing restrictions. Open close, open, close. Color tiers, no let’s do regional tiers. It’s like he’s reacting and is flailing around not know what to do. Business owners can’t keep up.
From what I’ve seen, people aren’t listening anymore. They are masking up near me, but no one is staying home. Now they’re starting to say you still have to wear a mask after the vaccine is out. Sorry, no. If you think non compliance is bad now, wait until next summer when everyone that wants to be vaccinated has been. If any restrictions are left, they will be completely ignored.
Yeah, in part because of people like you. Faux-messengers who actually want to undermine containment measures and pretend that won't make it worse. People who slide in anecdotes that have no value or sometimes outright lie. May you go wherever Looker went.
Yeah, in part because of people like you. Faux-messengers who actually want to undermine containment measures and pretend that won't make it worse. People who slide in anecdotes that have no value or sometimes outright lie. May you go wherever Looker went.
The problem is people like you don’t care about anything but themselves. You people are so driven by fear, you pretend to care about the loss of life when you’re just worried about yourself. You’re scared of the virus and afraid you’re going to catch it. You don’t care about people losing everything in lockdowns that OBVIOUSLY don’t work. Your ideas have been hands down the worst on the board, by far. They’re actually laughable.
It’s better to do targeted restrictions, but the politicians and people like you make it worse.
It has been in the news the last few days that a new version of the Covid 19 virus is spreading and while it is no worse people get infected faster and easier. The UK has shut down a lot of the country, So expect cases to climb.
(Bloomberg) -- The new Covid-19 strain that emerged in the U.K. is possibly already in the U.S., Germany, France and Switzerland, officials in those countries said. Ireland imposed new restrictions to stem an “extraordinary growth” in cases, and said the nation should act on the assumption that the new variant has arrived.
1. A more transmissive variant of COVID-19 evolved in a small country with limited transmission, at the same time as a rapid increase in global cases, and--by the way--that country just HAPPENS to have the best genetic sequencing capability in the world?
Or
2. A more transmissive variant of COVID-19 evolved, undetected, somewhere else, and then spread to the rest of the world, including the UK, which could detect it.
???
I mean, c'mon. The UK produces about 5% of the new daily virus cases detected in the world. You really think this variant EMERGED there?
Obviously it was just caught there when it caused the November runup in cases ALL OVER THE WORLD. It "emerged" in Southern England because there are a lot of anti-maskers there, so new variants spread quickly and showed up in genetic sequencing there BEFORE it showed up in places where people have more sense, like London. Same deal with North Dakota VS. California. The new variant was suppressed in CA by masking, (and by partial herd immunity in Florida) but ran riot in the Dakotas.
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