Coronavirus (Freedom: driving test, parallel, appointed)

[goodheathen]

Originally Posted by HereOnMars

I don't think you give humans enough credit gh. You seem to think it's okay to omit vital information that would be beneficial to someone who could be exposed to the virus and yet may not contract it. Instead, you want us to be dumbed down so we'll take an injection of a formula that has potential side effects far worse than long covid symptoms. Not only that hiding said drug information for 75 years?

Does this even make sense to you? Can't you see how dangerous and deceptive this sort of behavior is? I'm not a stupid person and neither are you. Neither are many of the people who come to these threads and post comments. We're all capable of using our brains to discern information but when we aren't given everything we need to make that decision, it can be very dangerous to our personal health. I'm not a fan of big pharma. I've seen too many of their creations do irreparable damage to the human body. You think I'm going to trust a vaccine that doesn't really stop you from getting the virus? As a matter of fact, they shouldn't even be calling it a vaccine because it doesn't do what a vaccine is supposed to do.

From the Oxford Dictionary:

Speaking of credit, you just thoroughly discredited yourself. Your only argument against lack of transparency in hospital data is an illogical one that a weirdly lengthy NDA in maybe just one country would hide dangers that vaccines have never caused (the only harms show up very soon), when the government already shields against lawsuits about vaccines and those dangers would be too risky for both makers and the government to ever give to the public. And the lack of data transparency isn't particularly about vaccines; it's to not undermine precautions in general.

Most people here are smart, but few are very smart and most are guilty of believing what they want to believe over reality.

[njbiodude]

I found this website very, very interesting:

https://www.usmortality.com/excess-absolute

It tracks total excess mortality for 2020 and 2021 state by state.

As you can see overall Florida did much, much better than CA in 2020 and California did significantly worse than Florida overall.

Covid death counts can easily be affected by the parameters by which a Covid death is determined. However, because nearly 100% of deaths are tallied in first world nations there is little ability to alter total deaths which can easily be compared to other baseline years to ascertain excess mortality. Whether lockdowns or other restrictions themselves caused additional deaths or the methodology to count covid deaths was different between states we will never know. However, there seems to be a trend that locked down states did worse overall.

[sav858]

Originally Posted by njbiodude

I found this website very, very interesting:

https://www.usmortality.com/excess-absolute

It tracks total excess mortality for 2020 and 2021 state by state.

As you can see overall Florida did much, much better than CA in 2020 and California did significantly worse than Florida overall.

Covid death counts can easily be affected by the parameters by which a Covid death is determined. However, because nearly 100% of deaths are tallied in first world nations there is little ability to alter total deaths which can easily be compared to other baseline years to ascertain excess mortality. Whether lockdowns or other restrictions themselves caused additional deaths or the methodology to count covid deaths was different between states we will never know. However, there seems to be a trend that locked down states did worse overall.

Excess deaths is really the metric we should be looking at to see how well states handled COVID.

Florida's average age is a lot higher too yet it's about the same. But some people just can't let go of the narrative that restrictions saved all these lives. I'm sure someone will come in with an excuse about the data.

[goodheathen]

Originally Posted by sav858

Excess deaths is really the metric we should be looking at to see how well states handled COVID.

Florida's average age is a lot higher too yet it's about the same. But some people just can't let go of the narrative that restrictions saved all these lives. I'm sure someone will come in with an excuse about the data.

It's data and geographic segregation between old people (often in retirement communities) and an otherwise fairly young, low-risk population. Restrictions can be moderately effective, but in Southern California they were mostly for show in counties that claimed to enforce them and the stupid Federal government left the border mostly open.

[njbiodude]

Originally Posted by goodheathen

It's data and geographic segregation between old people (often in retirement communities) and an otherwise fairly young, low-risk population. Restrictions can be moderately effective, but in Southern California they were mostly for show in counties that claimed to enforce them and the stupid Federal government left the border mostly open.

Excess death data is by far the least corruptible to the political biases of the person running the statistics or data collectors. The reality is other than a few homeless people practically 100% of deaths are counted in the US. Vast differences in how deaths are counted between say influenza and Covid however have extremely significant effects on total "covid mortality rates."

Florida isn't very segregated overall; a lot of my elderly relatives live there. There were some protocols in place for nursing homes exclusively but even there most residents were allowed exponentially more freedom with visitors and leaving facilities, mask usage than in CA, NY, NJ etc. Also, the extreme majority of retirees don't live in congregate care and in Florida they took far, far fewer "precautions." With so many elderly walking around and old age being by far the biggest comorbidity for Covid deaths its surprising that excess deaths weren't many multiples higher.

Mask usage was low in Florida in general and schools have been open since August 2020 indoors, with masks being removed in 2021. In CA some schools and Universities are still pushing for masks. City cores of cities like Miami, Tampa, Jacksonville are likewise very populated with skyscrapers, busses etc.

In the Bay Area indoor dining was closed almost a year, and in LA and the Bay Area area gyms were closed about a year. Stores were totally closed in the entire state longer than Wuhan. Schools were closed in much of the state for almost a year and a half. Outdoor parks in much of the state were closed for months. The differences between California and Florida couldn't be more obvious yet the fact that they did better despite almost no "force" is very telling.

[suzy_q2010]

Originally Posted by njbiodude

There's lies, damned lies and statistics.

Pharmaceutical and biotech companies do it all the time. I had an R&D team at an employer (I didnt work on that team) once take a scatterplot of random data, cherry pick the hell out of it and drew a linear regression line through the junk saying there was a "correlation" for their product.The company then proceeded to hire a world class marketing team and made many millions of dollars.

Deaths are still counted vastly differently for flu and covid too. People that die 28 days after a positive Covid test are almost certainly counted as Covid deaths unless (maybe) their death is totally unrelated to illness. For influenza, people that die of secondary pneumonia usually aren't counted as a flu death.

The problem is that by the time people with flu get secondary bacterial pneumonia and get sick enough to see a doctor, they may no longer test positive for flu. However, if they had not had flu they would not have bacterial pneumonia. If they are known to have flu they are counted as a flu death.

Influenza is not a reportable disease in the US, so the number of cases and deaths are estimated, using methods to account for unreported cases and cases not diagnosed at all.

Originally Posted by HereOnMars

I don't think you give humans enough credit gh. You seem to think it's okay to omit vital information that would be beneficial to someone who could be exposed to the virus and yet may not contract it. Instead, you want us to be dumbed down so we'll take an injection of a formula that has potential side effects far worse than long covid symptoms. Not only that hiding said drug information for 75 years?

Does this even make sense to you? Can't you see how dangerous and deceptive this sort of behavior is? I'm not a stupid person and neither are you. Neither are many of the people who come to these threads and post comments. We're all capable of using our brains to discern information but when we aren't given everything we need to make that decision, it can be very dangerous to our personal health. I'm not a fan of big pharma. I've seen too many of their creations do irreparable damage to the human body. You think I'm going to trust a vaccine that doesn't really stop you from getting the virus? As a matter of fact, they shouldn't even be calling it a vaccine because it doesn't do what a vaccine is supposed to do.

From the Oxford Dictionary:

No one is deliberately withholding information. There is no evidence that the side effects of the vaccines, 92% of which are things like sore arms, fever, and fatigue, are worse than the disease.

The "75 year" idea (actually 55 years) comes from a Freedom of Information request from an anti-vaccine attorney for thousands of pages of data that will have to have personal identification information on patients redacted. The FDA does not have enough staff to fulfill the demand. That is nothing but a massive fishing expedition by people who, frankly, will not know what the data means when they get it. It is time consuming and expensive with small chance of revealing anything of consequence.

https://endpts.com/pfizer-wants-to-h...-vaccine-data/

It is a vaccine, by the very definition you cited. No vaccine is 100% effective, so if that is your criterion for a vaccine, there are no vaccines for anything. The covid vaccines do prevent infections in some people, though the effectiveness wanes fairly quickly. Being less effective than other vaccines does not mean it is not a vaccine at all.

You say that humans are not being given enough credit while failing to give credit to the scientists who develop the vaccines to even know what one is.

[stablegenius]

Originally Posted by goodheathen

Most people here are smart, but few are very smart and most are guilty of believing what they want to believe over reality.

Oh the irony!

[stablegenius]

Originally Posted by sav858

Excess deaths is really the metric we should be looking at to see how well states handled COVID.

Florida's average age is a lot higher too yet it's about the same. But some people just can't let go of the narrative that restrictions saved all these lives. I'm sure someone will come in with an excuse about the data.

That's why I got tired of arguing with these people. Anyone can see whatever they want in the data, especially if they cherry pick it. Add to that the skewed tracking and reporting of true hospitalizations and what not, and why bother?

[jbgusa]

Originally Posted by goodheathen

The CDC and other places get that info. Local officials have little reason to show it to a public that would misuse it to downplay the virus and basically write off the pandemic as only a threat to unhealthy people (who actually probably are about 30% of adults) and also ignore the threat of Long-Covid to just about everyone.

Who decides who can be trusted with truthful information that there is " little reason to show it to a public"?

[njbiodude]

Originally Posted by jbgusa

Who decides who can be trusted with truthful information that there is " little reason to show it to a public"?

Remember Walensky and her impending doom nonsense? Or when she said masks were an excellent way to reduce "monkeypox spread," despite the disease being a skin and not a respiratory illness. You'd figure the head of the CDC would know the difference but these people are appointed by Brandon.