Assembly Bill 746 - Proposal to Prohibit Smoking in All Multi-Family Residential Units (school, living)

[AnonymouseX]

Originally Posted by nullgeo

I'm sure many do. And that certainly equates to smoking doesn't it? After all, the civilization we all find ourselves in makes it easy to walk or ride horses everywhere we need to go ... and terribly hard to not smoke our ways through the day.

Argument? Non. Observations.

Surprised? At hypocrisy and lunacy? Not at all.

Morbid humor? One might think I'd be expert at that, having had my wife breathe her last breath in my arms as she died of lung cancer leaving me to raise the four kids -- and bury my brother 6-months later of the same. And then there were: brother-in-law, father-in-law, mother-in-law all of lung cancers in the preceeding 4 years. And my cousin, his wife, and three of my closest friends from lung cancers in the following few years. Hilarious stories I can tell.

Hypocrisy?

Nah, people do ask me if and why I smoke. I don't lie to them but you can't expect things caused by smoking to be fixed if you continue to smoke.

Frankly, there are far worse ways out than cancer. I really just don't fear it anymore. And any long term problem such as COPD is going to be bypassed by my grand exit strategy.

My real fear is Alzheimer's and it is in our family. Cancer also runs through our family and as of yet no one has dodges that bullet.

And I like smoking. Or I'm addicted and I think I like it. Same difference...

Ultimately, as long as I don't exhale on anyone else it's my choice to make and bed to lie in.

[nullgeo]

Originally Posted by AnonymouseX

Hypocrisy?

Certainly. You give the anti-smoking lecture then smoke. If asked you admit. Your admission does not cancel the hypocrisy.

Originally Posted by AnonymouseX

Frankly, there are far worse ways out than cancer.

You think so? I disagree with regard to lung cancer specifically.

I have seen guys dismembered and partially vaporized in war -- and picked up what was left and bagged it and scrubbed the aircraft clean of the splatter. Instantaneous death is the way to go, of course. No time for pain or reflection.

Then there were those who took the hit and stayed conscious a while -- minutes, hours, teeth chattering, arms and legs shaking, blood dribbling out of their mouths while they wept they were so cold in the heat. But that was over fairly quick.

Other than war, the ones who slowly lost their identity and dignity as they trickled away into oblivion were very tough. I agree.

But nothing quite matches the excrutiatingly painful deterioration of lung cancer that metasticizes to brain tumors that steal so many functions and dignities, and produce blinding headaches, while other tumors take over the lymph system and invade the bones so that every step is agony until you can't walk -- and then you lie with tumors in your spine that leave no position without searing pain that even the morphine patches and drips can't relieve. The sweats and deliriums that come and go. The inability to control bodily functions while you hang on to visit with your young children to tell them how much they are loved and a source of pride. And finally you can't even lift your arms and control your hands to put drops into your burning eyes, or balm on your burning lips, and your feet are like ice.

Yeah, I hope you do have an exit strategy to avoid that.

Originally Posted by AnonymouseX

I really just don't fear it anymore.

Nice to have a cavalier lie to tell yourself.

[NewToCA]

Let's not make this a pro or anti smoking thread, that would belong in the P&OC Forum.

Let's keep it to the narrower point of the Assembly Bill 746 proposed restrictions.

[AnonymouseX]

Originally Posted by nullgeo

Certainly. You give the anti-smoking lecture then smoke. If asked you admit. Your admission does not cancel the hypocrisy.
You think so? I disagree with regard to lung cancer specifically.

I have seen guys dismembered and partially vaporized in war -- and picked up what was left and bagged it and scrubbed the aircraft clean of the splatter. Instantaneous death is the way to go, of course. No time for pain or reflection.

Then there were those who took the hit and stayed conscious a while -- minutes, hours, teeth chattering, arms and legs shaking, blood dribbling out of their mouths while they wept they were so cold in the heat. But that was over fairly quick.

Other than war, the ones who slowly lost their identity and dignity as they trickled away into oblivion were very tough. I agree.

But nothing quite matches the excrutiatingly painful deterioration of lung cancer that metasticizes to brain tumors that steal so many functions and dignities, and produce blinding headaches, while other tumors take over the lymph system and invade the bones so that every step is agony until you can't walk -- and then you lie with tumors in your spine that leave no position without searing pain that even the morphine patches and drips can't relieve. The sweats and deliriums that come and go. The inability to control bodily functions while you hang on to visit with your young children to tell them how much they are loved and a source of pride. And finally you can't even lift your arms and control your hands to put drops into your burning eyes, or balm on your burning lips, and your feet are like ice.

Yeah, I hope you do have an exit strategy to avoid that.

Nice to have a cavalier lie to tell yourself.

That's not hypocrisy. I don't tell them its WRONG to smoke. Only the harmful effects.

Not the definition of hypocrisy.

Yeah, as to dying, watch an Alzheimer's patient's last few years. You'll change your mind. Pain is nothing compared to the dementias. Pain CAN be treated very well.

And the big cause of that suffering is not the disease but the person hanging on to the very last second of life. Or rather, the inability for them to do otherwise. That if course is one's decision to make but...

And I don't just see the after effects of someone dying. I'm there holding their freekin' hand. Day in and day out for years... I've literally known and cared for thousands of people that have died in all sorts of horrific ways. Dementias still scare me the most.

If I tell you I'm not afraid of cancer then I'm not. Though let me rephrase it. I fear the loss of my mind far more than anything else.

At any point that I have a terminal illness I'll be bypassing that horrific end stage.


But we are straying from the topic I believe. As mentioned above.

[nullgeo]

Originally Posted by AnonymouseX

That's not hypocrisy. I don't tell them its WRONG to smoke. Only the harmful effects.

Not the definition of hypocrisy.

Yeah, as to dying, watch an Alzheimer's patient's last few years. You'll change your mind. Pain is nothing compared to the dementias. Pain CAN be treated very well.

And the big cause of that suffering is not the disease but the person hanging on to the very last second of life. Or rather, the inability for them to do otherwise. That if course is one's decision to make but...

And I don't just see the after effects of someone dying. I'm there holding their freekin' hand. Day in and day out for years... I've literally known and cared for thousands of people that have died in all sorts of horrific ways. Dementias still scare me the most.

If I tell you I'm not afraid of cancer then I'm not. Though let me rephrase it. I fear the loss of my mind far more than anything else.

At any point that I have a terminal illness I'll be bypassing that horrific end stage.


But we are straying from the topic I believe. As mentioned above.

Some pain is reasonably ameliorated with treatments and some is not ... and you know that even massive doses of morphine don't make pain "ok" -- short of rendering a person comatose. I have been on the receiving end of severe damage and treated with morphine and demerol in the field and in long term hospitalizations. You also must know that much of the pain of cancer is emotional / psychological, just as onset stages of Alzheimer's. You are mistaken if you assume I have not been involved with death through dementia.

Hanging on to the last second is a torture of love in many cases -- for both the dying and the living. Every second, every breath is precious, just as it is torturous. Your caring for the terminally ill is a professional assignment. I do not suggest you are not compassionate or touched by many as they pass. But I have held the hands of those who I loved the most, dying young. I have lost a child, a grandchild, wife, brother, and the others mentioned previously, as well as crewmates in battle who shared a total responsibility we had to protect each others lives. I cradled and nursed and held the 'freeking hands' of most of these people, as well, some for years. This is all very different from professional management of end stage disease. Your work is commendable. But it does not involve the depths of love, nor bear responsibility for living, except as a transitioning period into death.

I do agree with you that the trickling away of mind is a horror.

As to how we relate to the topic of Bill 746, obviously it deals with a subject that is hardly frivolous. And while some will no doubt raise the cry of "nanny state interference", I suggest that it is, at its simplest, at least as justifiable as noise ordinances and other public nusiance laws that restrict various activities such as might cause noxious odors infringing on neighbors. At its more complex it deals with the reality of smoke -- any kind of smoke -- being carcinogenic. Whatever lack of scientific proof currently as to the degree of physical harm, smoke IS noxious to all given persistent presence -- and OBnoxious to many even in slight doses.

[Fargobound]

Smoking is a filthy and disgusting habit. I rather have someone smoking weed living next door.

[EscapeCalifornia]

Originally Posted by Fargobound

Smoking is a filthy and disgusting habit. I rather have someone smoking weed living next door.

I've got one of those too. The only difference is that its less frequent.

[Senno]

Originally Posted by EscapeCalifornia

I've got one of those too. The only difference is that its less frequent.

I only have an old dude that just went to the Philippines for a wife...

As to smoke in apartments: It can be extremely persistent and hard to clean, which equals expense. I wonder how many apartment complexes allow smoking now?

[Malloric]

I wonder if those e-cigarette things would be a reasonable compromise? I mean, there is something about cigars that I really enjoy. Cigarettes were more a 5 minute break mini-meditation session. If were still smoking, I might give the e-cigarettes a try.

[CA4Now]

Originally Posted by Fargobound

Smoking is a filthy and disgusting habit. I rather have someone smoking weed living next door.

And smoking weed is any different?

As much as I may be against smoking, this particular bill seems discriminatory. It also seems extreme in its attempted reach into one's private life...but maybe that's how people felt about seatbelts when they became law.