California still exists, even in SoCal (Fresno: hotels, house, construction)

[FresnoFacts]

Originally Posted by user_id

Several huh? Any reason why you're not citing one? Income is not the thing to look at in the first place though, its wealth.

Yes income will matter, wealth can be tied up in things like home/land/etc which won't pay the bills.

Sources? OK here are some for you.

This one is from 2005 but incomes have not risen much since then
"The median household income of those individuals and families owning horses is approximately $60,000 with approximately 34% of the industry having a median household income of less than $50,000 and 28% of the horse owning population having an annual income of over $100,000."
http://www.manesandtailsorganization...005_Report.pdf

Here is a 2009 study which goes a little higher but still keeps the household income within what I would consider a middle class 2 income family
"Nearly 50% of respondents report an annual household income of less than $75,000. Only 13.4% report household incomes of more than $150,000."
American Horse Publications Survey Sheds Light on Equine Industry Trends - HorseChannel.com

A West Virginia University study of horse ownership in that state says:
"Survey results also indicated that 39.9% of respondents had an annual household cash income of $70,000 or greater"
http://www.wvu.edu/~agexten/youth/Equine.pdf
if 40% in this study were over $70K the median was closer to $60K

The Chamber of Commerce in Saratoga, NY says
"The median income horse owner has an income between $36,000 and $60,000"
Saratoga County Chamber of Commerce:Act Now On Racing (http://www.saratoga.org/chamber/act-now-on-racing.asp - broken link)

I don't see anything in these numbers that indicates it is mainly the wealthy who own horses. Since I am using household income these numbers are easily reached even in a situation of two people making only $30K-$35K each.

And personally I know mechanics, single teachers, and others who are middle class horse owners. It is a choice just like others who spend money to own and use a boat, RV, etc.

[SOON2BNSURPRISE]

Originally Posted by user_id

The point of my comment was that you don't need to be a resident of Malibu to surf in Malibu, Malibu beaches are some of the closest to the San Fernando Valley, Simi Valley, Conejo Valley, etc.

Anyhow, if you flip through a surfing mag its rather obvious what their target demographic is in terms of socioeconomic class.


Not when you have Visa, Mastercard, HELOCs, etc. The working and middle-class are fond of over extending themselves, that is especially true in California.



$100k is well beyond the typical working class income. In Oxnard that would put you in the top 5~8% or so. Anyhow, I'm talking about social class though, social class is merely correlated with wealth and loosely correlated with income.

Maybe you have a point to your comments but my point is that you are placing everyone into a container and stating that they have X amount of money therefore they can do this and that, but not the other. Turning the tables, how is it that you know how much someone that surfs has anyway?

As far as financing a lifestyle in a multi million dollar home, I am sure that it could occur but I am more positive that the individuals that live there, even the renters that pay $25,000 a month to rent a home have more money than most and are far from the middle class. You don't make the cut unless you have the means. Look at people like Yvon Chouinard. He surfs all the time. Many that work for him also surf. One of the things that he has is a corporate home on the beach at Rincon in Ventura that guests can use. The place is stocked with surf boards for the guests. He himself will leave the office and head out to the water when the waves are good. I would consider him very wealthy, wouldn't you?

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by user_id

I grew up in a working-class community in California, nobody I knew had a horse, but we sure did surf and skate a lot. I see a lot of horse people here though, numerous multi-million horse properties in the Conejo Valley (Hidden Valley, etc).

Your upbringing is not a disqualifying factor when it comes to enjoying horseback riding. I grew up in a very wealthy enclave (think beach community) in Orange County. However, we certainly didn't own horses. The dogs would have objected to sharing the patio with them.

I swam, surfed and sailed back in the 50s and 60s and I also rode horses occasionally, strictly for enjoyment. My mother used to compete and show horses in a little place called Madison Square Gardens in New York when she was young. My ability to ride led to an all summer and every weekend job on a large cattle ranch, also in Orange County, and Irvine and other new inland communitiesares built on land on which we used to graze the cattle. It helped pay my college costs.

Ya see? Generalizations just don't work. You are now free to analyze me sociologically and tell me where I fit in. I dare ya to get it right.

[proudmommy]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

You are now free to analyze me sociologically and tell me where I fit in. I dare ya to get it right.

My guess:

Female, Asian, age 22-27, twice divorced, 15%-20% of skin is body art, PhD in one of the life sciences, four cats, Pisces, "rolls her own", hobbies include deer hunting and playing the harp.

Am I close?

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by proudmommy

My guess:

Female, Asian, age 22-27, twice divorced, 15%-20% of skin is body art, PhD in one of the life sciences, four cats, Pisces, "rolls her own", hobbies include deer hunting and playing the harp.

Am I close?

Ya gotta ways ta go!

[Charles]

Something like this?

http://www.binarypulse.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/b2bmarketer_curmudgeon.jpg (broken link)

[Vascodagama]

Originally Posted by proudmommy

My guess:

Female, Asian, age 22-27, twice divorced, 15%-20% of skin is body art, PhD in one of the life sciences, four cats, Pisces, "rolls her own", hobbies include deer hunting and playing the harp.

Am I close?

That's me

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by Charles

Something like this?

Way meaner and more dangerous!

[user_id]

Originally Posted by FresnoFacts

This one is from 2005 but incomes have not risen much since then
"The median household income of those individuals and families owning horses is approximately $60,000 with approximately 34% of the industry having a median household income of less than $50,000 and 28% of the horse owning population having an annual income of over $100,000."

Adjusted for inflation that is around $67k, which is a good $15k higher than the median household income for the US. I'm not sure what you're trying to show, this shows that horse owners are on average wealthier than non-horse owners. Furthermore, income isn't what needs to be looked at in the first place, its wealth. Someone can be worth 10 million and only realize $80k in annual income.

Lastly, I never claimed that only the wealthy have horses, rather I claimed that they are used as status symbols (excluding ranchers, etc) to signal wealth. Much like owning a BMW, which plenty of middle-class people own (in fact, their marketing is largely targeted towards the middle-class).

[user_id]

Originally Posted by SOON2BNSURPRISE

Maybe you have a point to your comments but my point is that you are placing everyone into a container and stating that they have X amount of money therefore they can do this and that, but not the other. Turning the tables, how is it that you know how much someone that surfs has anyway?

No, that is just the way you are interpreting my comments, but they are statistical generalizations about the population. I'm claiming that if you looked at the distribution of socioeconomic status among surfers it would be a normal distribution with the majoring in the working-class, that is to say the majority would be working-class and you'd find fewer and fewer as you move in either direction.