Why did you...or why do you want to move out of California? (Fresno: home, live in)

[Ceece]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

Funny! I think some old guys in powdered wigs who signed a common document 234 years ago today might politely disagree with you.

Here's a hint. It's called the Declaration of Independence!

Those old guys would choke on their powdered wigs if they saw what our country is up to today. Don't even TRY to tell me people can self govern and monitor themselves. I have proof positive that they can't, 51 years on this earth. I came to this conclusion after only 18 and the next 33 just reinforced that and exceeded even my worst expectations.

Anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool.

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by Ceece

Those old guys would choke on their powdered wigs if they saw what our country is up to today. Don't even TRY to tell me people can self govern and monitor themselves. I have proof positive that they can't, 51 years on this earth. I came to this conclusion after only 18 and the next 33 just reinforced that and exceeded even my worst expectations.

Anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool.

OK, Ceece. Mark me down as a fool -- one who's been around 64 years, has far more faith in mankind than you appear to and who has no need to be tightly wrapped in the nanny state cocoon such as you appear to prefer. Government has its place but it's not in every minute aspect of my life. I can think for myself and am surrounded by others who appear to have the same ability.

You're right about one thing. The founders would decidedly choke on their periwigs if they saw how intrusive government has become and how dependent upon it so many are.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by CArizona

Why do you want to move out of California? If you've already moved away what were your reasons for leaving California? Just curious...Thanks.

Ca. native. Moved in '89. pop. density was the reason. As in to many rats in a cage. Still room in Eastern Washington but watch out for the poop.

[ringwise]

Originally Posted by user_id

You do little but complain about California on these forums, your posts (mostly negative) on California far out-number your posts on your new home. Trying to convince yourself of something?


The swamp land comment is obviously exaggerated and I'm not referring to the state rather the Ozarks.


Redneck, like most words, has more than one meaning. You can find my usage in the dictionary, as well as the definition you are mentioning. And sure there are hillbillies too, you can add "and hillbilly" to my previous comment if it makes you happy.

And no, I'm not to proud to met them. But I would worry about them trying to hang me if I said anything I thought. You can try to present these folks and good and loving folks but I have enough experience with them to know otherwise. They may be friendly to people in their community that are like them, but not to others. Would they give their shirt to a gay guy, black guy, atheist guy, etc? Probably not.

But if you enjoy this environment and can fit in with the country-folk, that's great. Enjoy the swamp-land

Your posts are illustrating exactly why I'm leaving this state in 60 days.

I bet the people in that community would gladly give their shirt to a gay, black, atheist, etc. But I know that the so-called enlightened folk would never see past their ignorant assumptions and give "rednecks" a shirt. They'd be too busy getting onto their high horse, mocking that person for their lack of education, lecturing them about recycling, and shrieking that the govt must do something about them. You worry that they won't let you "be yourself", yet you're mocking them for being themselves.

Yup, I'll miss the geography of CA. But won't miss 90% of the people.

[10ofus]

Over-regulation! I was born and raised here in beautiful northern California. But liberalism/environmentalism has gotten such a stronghold here that freedoms are being taken away step by step. This is not the same California I once knew. We are planning to move. I hope the California mentality won't infect the rest of the country.

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by 10ofus

Over-regulation! I was born and raised here in beautiful northern California. But liberalism/environmentalism has gotten such a stronghold here that freedoms are being taken away step by step. This is not the same California I once knew. We are planning to move. I hope the California mentality won't infect the rest of the country.

Thankfully, that unfortunate phenomenon appears, thus far, to be mostly confined to coastal states.

[sjnative]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

Funny! I think some old guys in powdered wigs who signed a common document 234 years ago today might politely disagree with you.

You said it.. that was 234 years ago. The US is a different place now. those guys didn't live in a state of tens of millions of unalike people, many of them living in close proximity to each other, many of them not caring how their actions affect others.

Given that, I think your citation of the Declaration of Independence is rather anachronistic and not at all comprehensive of the difference between then and now.

Originally Posted by CArizona

In small towns people still have to worry about their reputation because everyone knows each other's business..

I think you're referring to your idea of a small town.

I can't believe that everyone or even most people in small towns in modern day curtail their behavior because they actually care about what other people think.

In real life- anywhere- a lot of people you live and work with will behave in a way they know others don't like and their attitude will be "if you don't like it, tough".

[sjnative]

Originally Posted by user_id

You do little but complain about California on these forums, your posts (mostly negative) on California far out-number your posts on your new home. Trying to convince yourself of something?

I'm getting the same impression. I had found curmudgeon's posts stimulating but they're starting to seem characterized by little but sentiment with CA's past and discontent with its present. Losing interest.

Originally Posted by user_id

Redneck, like most words, has more than one meaning. ...

And no, I'm not to proud to met them. But I would worry about them trying to hang me if I said anything I thought. You can try to present these folks and good and loving folks but I have enough experience with them to know otherwise. They may be friendly to people in their community that are like them, but not to others. Would they give their shirt to a gay guy, black guy, atheist guy, etc? Probably not.

+1, the rednecks that I've known would probably be thought of as "real nice folks" by some but to those unlike them, they don't fit any idyllic image.

As for their reaction to unlike-minded people, violence really could be the reaction, under the pretense of "setting things right" or some other crude expression.

Originally Posted by 10ofus

But liberalism/environmentalism has gotten such a stronghold here that freedoms are being taken away step by step. This is not the same California I once knew. We are planning to move. I hope the California mentality won't infect the rest of the country.

You mean the freedom to be irresponsible and not think about how your actions might be detrimental to anyone or thing? You'll find that in "real America".

and.. here''s the most common misconception of environmentalism- that it's the California mentality. Well, no. Environmentalism, like any school of thought, has its origin in not just one place, if any. Academics and other participants in any discussion of environmentalism include people far and wide outside of California.

But.. never mind. You'll still refer to it as the California mentality.

[user_id]

Originally Posted by ringwise

Your posts are illustrating exactly why I'm leaving this state in 60 days.

Well don't let the door hit you in the rear on the way out.

Originally Posted by ringwise

I bet the people in that community would gladly give their shirt to a gay, black, atheist, etc.

Yes of course, there are no racial issues in the South and evangelical Christians are always glad to have another atheist in the community.

Originally Posted by ringwise

They'd be too busy getting onto their high horse, mocking that person for their lack of education...

Yeah probably.

Originally Posted by ringwise

You worry that they won't let you "be yourself", yet you're mocking them for being themselves.

Basically, I'm a bigot against bigots.

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by sjnative

I think you're referring to your idea of a small town.

I can't believe that everyone or even most people in small towns in modern day curtail their behavior because they actually care about what other people think.

In real life- anywhere- a lot of people you live and work with will behave in a way they know others don't like and their attitude will be "if you don't like it, tough".

Actually, you're wrong. I live in one and go to may others. It's more than a mere idea.

People do care because they're considerate.

That attitude has more to do with some coastal areas than it has to do with the heartland, thank goodness. It's generally more civil.