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No its not important. I would rather buy a car from a foreign manufacture that's built in the USA with a higher percentage of parts made in the USA, then an "American" vehicle that's built in Mexico or Canada. Who cares where the profits go.
I tried to rent a customer of mine a Toyota Camry. He told me that he wanted an American car. I told him that is was assembled in Indiana with a high percentage of domestic content and that it only had 200 miles on it. Still he insisted on a domestic marque. I ended up reting him a PT Cruiser that was built in Mexico with hardly any American Domestic Content. With global part suppliers and factories so common these days, it's hard to tell what is an American car.
It sure could have, but dang, virtually every single Toyota & Subaru I see (that's older than 10 years old) is an absolute rust bucket. I know it's the salt they use on the roads, during the winter, in the Midwest. But it sure takes its toll!
You got that right. When I was a little kid, my parents got a new 1973 Toyota... and the concept of 'undercoating' and 'rust prevention' obviously was not understood with these imported cars, that went to New England, which had a lot of salt on the road in the winter. When I was a teenager, I got good at fiberglass mesh and resin. While it was a decent car, at 60K miles I did everything I could to keep the fenders from perforating and falling off.
You got that right. When I was a little kid, my parents got a new 1973 Toyota... and the concept of 'undercoating' and 'rust prevention' obviously was not understood with these imported cars, that went to New England, which had a lot of salt on the road in the winter. When I was a teenager, I got good at fiberglass mesh and resin. While it was a decent car, at 60K miles I did everything I could to keep the fenders from perforating and falling off.
Base your opinion of Japanese cars on a Toyota built in 1973 - almost 40 years ago?
I think people should buy the car that represents the greatest value while meeting their needs and wants. If it's a Chevy built in Australia, a BMW built in Georgia, a Toyota built in Kentucky or a Ford built in Germany, it doesn't matter. The auto industry is incredibly globalized and even cars that claim to have large amounts of US parts content, often don't. Essentially the major subsystems get assembled here which let's them claim US parts content, but the parts really come from all over as well as the raw materials. In terms of total economics, the domestics have a much larger impact on the US then the foreign manufacturers do even with many of the foreign cars built here, but that shouldn't really factor into the equation.
At the end of the day, if the only reason someone will buy a Chevy or Ford is because it's a Chevy or Ford, then the companies have failed. Buy their product because it's good and represents the best value for you in terms of your needs and wants. Not based on some vague notion of patriotism tied up in apple pies, levies and music dieing.
If I travel 40 miles in one direction, Mercedes are rolling off an assembly line. 40 miles in another direction, it's Hondas. 90 miles in another direction, it's Hyundais. 130 miles in another direction and it will be Volkswagens. 90 miles in yet another direction it will be Nissans.
So. Five different auto manufacturers within two hours of my house, most of whom employ workers in my state and put money back into the local economy through either direct monies or by means of all the aftermarket suppliers who supply said plants. Explain to me again why I should necessarily buy Ford, GM, or Chrysler/Jeep?
If I travel 40 miles in one direction, Mercedes are rolling off an assembly line. 40 miles in another direction, it's Hondas. 90 miles in another direction, it's Hyundais. 130 miles in another direction and it will be Volkswagens. 90 miles in yet another direction it will be Nissans.
So. Five different auto manufacturers within two hours of my house. Explain to me again why I should necessarily buy Ford, GM, or Chrysler/Jeep?
You shouldn't necessarily buy an American brand, just because it's an American brand. You should however, give their product an equal consideration in the market.
The othe factor people miss is that the US manufacturers were very much incentivized to not build factories in the US. They couldn't move into the southern non-union states without a major issue and expanding operations in the union areas meant that they were at a disadvantage cost wise. The foreign manufacturers operate all non-union shops and never had the same issues. One of the biggest things to come out of the bailout was a restructuring of the UAW deals that now makes it so the US manufacturers can bring manufacturing back to the US and do it profitably. In fact, both GM and Ford are greatly expanding their US based manufacturing.
You also have to realize that the foreign auto plants are often given lavish tax breaks to exist where they are and they don't employ nearly as many workers as people think on a fulltime basis. Toyota has massive operations in Kentucky, but only about 30%-40% of their workers are actually permanent. These permanent workers are the ones earning UAW competitive wages, health benefits and retirement plans. The rest of the workforce is made up of what they class as "contingent workers". These are usually hired through temp agencies on a contract basis, often for as little as $12 an hour and they receive no healthcare (they can purchase it, but most can't afford it) and receive no retirement plans. The temps don't even earn their incentive "kaizen" pay. There are cases where temps brought effeciency improvements to management only to see the full time guys in their department get a check and they got nothing, but a $25 gift certificate to the company store.
These workers can be let go on a whim and are often held to very strict attendance standards. For instance, the Toyota plant in Kentucky authorizes no more then 3 days off in an entire year for their temp workers. The temps have very little rights and can be let go on a whim. When Toyota had to shut down operations and sent their workers to work in the food pantry (they still tout this on their site) the people who went were Toyota's permanent workers who continued to receive full pay and benefits during the stoppage. The temp workers at the plant were all "furloughed" without pay during the stoppage.
At the same plant, in the late 1990's they employed over 7,700 full time workers. Throughout the 2000's, that number was whittled down to around 6,000 and those positions were replaced with increased hiring of temp workers. The Toyota plant is often cited as not even 70 miles away is Ford's Kentucky Truck Plant that produces the F250-F550 line of trucks. There are 5,000+ full time workers at that plant, no temps and the entry level pay is nearly double what Toyota pays its temps and includes health and retirement benefits.
While jobs are jobs, the foreign manufacturers are not exactly hiring people and paying them the way the domestic manufacturers do/did. No one is supporting a family on $12 an hour temp wages with no benefits. They stay in the vain hope that they can earn a permanent job, but the Toyota plant hasn't added a permanent worker in 5 years. They also implemented a plan that limits temps to working a maximum of two years, where they are either hired (no ones actually hired) or they are dismissed and cannot reapply for 6 months at which point they start back out at the base wage. To make matters worse, many of the temp workers at Toyota's plant are working, but they don't earn enough to support the family, so are still getting food and living assistance from the state.
While I am beating up Toyota as it is the most famous and longest running example, ALL of the foreign plants work this way. Yes, they bring jobs, but not the jobs people think. The Mexican worker that builds a Fusion is paid MORE then the Toyota temp in the US that builds the Camry, but the Mexican worker makes less then his UAW counterpart in the US.
Again, buy what you want because it is the right car for you, but reading through the thread, I see a lot of people really trying to white wash what is actually going on at these foreign plants.
You shouldn't necessarily buy an American brand, just because it's an American brand. You should however, give their product an equal consideration in the market.
Well, but that's not really the issue, given how we own a Ford and a Jeep, along with our trusty Honda Odyssey. Rather, American auto manufacturers shouldn't wrap themselves up in the flag and simply expect people to buy. That was their downfall for years, simply refusing to clean up their acts. And as someone who bought American and Japanese for years, the Japanese cars were demonstrably better in terms of reliability. Now, domestic manufacturers are beginning to catchup. But where they make it has far less to do with my decision than how well they make it.
Well, but that's not really the issue, given how we own a Ford and a Jeep, along with our trusty Honda Odyssey. Rather, American auto manufacturers shouldn't wrap themselves up in the flag and simply expect people to buy. That was their downfall for years, simply refusing to clean up their acts. And as someone who bought American and Japanese for years, the Japanese cars were demonstrably better in terms of reliability. Now, domestic manufacturers are beginning to catchup. But where they make it has far less to do with my decision than how well they make it.
I wasn't necessarily refering to you specifically, but I guess it was implied even if I didn't mean to imply it. I think a lot of people have written the American brands off entirely and would never consider an American car. These are often the same ones touting the parts content percentage and assembly location as justification for their foreign brand purchase. On the other hand, there are plenty of people who blindly buy American cars because they are "American" and would never consider an import no matter where it is built. I think both "attitudes" are pretty dumb to have.
You ultimately have the right attitude. Buy the best car that meets your needs. Where the company is headquartered and where the car is built shouldn't really factor into that decision.
Most of these discussion are based on things from the past. Today there is little difference between the cars mdade by various manufactureres. Most of them even look alike. To me with pretty much all else being equal, I keep my money here. I have added social and professional reasons to go with a US based Marque, but even without that, I would tend to lean toward keeping as much of my money here as possible. I do that in all purchases. If I can find a US brand of equal quality I go with that.
In many cases what I find in non-automotive products is the US brands are much more expensive, but much better quality. With new cars, quality is about the same. Looking for older cars with the kids, it is very difficult to find any US branded vehicles 15-20 years old that are decent quality, there are a few models here and there, but it is hard to find. New cars are a completely different story. .
I wasn't necessarily refering to you specifically, but I guess it was implied even if I didn't mean to imply it. I think a lot of people have written the American brands off entirely and would never consider an American car. These are often the same ones touting the parts content percentage and assembly location as justification for their foreign brand purchase. On the other hand, there are plenty of people who blindly buy American cars because they are "American" and would never consider an import no matter where it is built. I think both "attitudes" are pretty dumb to have.
You ultimately have the right attitude. Buy the best car that meets your needs. Where the company is headquartered and where the car is built shouldn't really factor into that decision.
I've always been a fan of American vehicles and have usually shunned anything Japanese or Korean simply because I feel that dollar for dollar, American cars are usually the best bargain. My personal feeling is the styling on so many of these Asian vehicles is absolutely atrocious. The newer American vehicles have some design theme or interesting aspects whereas I can't really differentiate between a Honda/Toyota/Lexus in the styling department because they all share a similar design theme.
Plus foreign vehicles tend to be more polarizing in certain environments and it's always best to avoid it. Not necessarily because I care what people think of what I drive but because I want to avoid unneeded friction.
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