72 year old woman tasered in Austin. Justified?? (safer, estimate)
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If what the cop did was right, it was right, her being a mom or grandma has little to do with it;; if it was wrong, the same rule applies. I can assure you, if I had gotten stopped and yes, I am a little old 72 year old, leave the little out of it, I would sign the damn ticket and decide later if I wanted to fight it or whatever.
The only part of this story that bothers me, or two parts: 1-yes, it could have killed her and that is scary and 2-the media which is so typical choose to only air what they thought would result in total shock to many. Typical libs.
oh come on, that is like apples and oranges... not to mention all of you who keep referring to her being just a little old lady, someone has pointed out< what about the 88 year old guy who shot the guard yesterday? Poor thing, he was a little old man....
It seems everytime I go through security at the airport i set the machine off: I am just an 72 year old that looks pretty harmless and I am harmless, but I still get checked and checked over and over. Why, they are doing their job, cut and dry.
If what the cop did was right, it was right, her being a mom or grandma has little to do with it;; if it was wrong, the same rule applies. I can assure you, if I had gotten stopped and yes, I am a little old 72 year old, leave the little out of it, I would sign the damn ticket and decide later if I wanted to fight it or whatever.
The only part of this story that bothers me, or two parts: 1-yes, it could have killed her and that is scary and 2-the media which is so typical choose to only air what they thought would result in total shock to many. Typical libs.
Nita
I disagree with you on two points.
I agree her behavior was terrible, she was verbally argumentative, that is no justification for using deadly force on an elderly women. She has not been trained in how to deal with these situations, HE HAS BEEN and is being paid to do so in a professional manner. The use of a taser is the application of deadly force, people die from taser shocks. His lack of anger control escalated the situation beyond all reasonable proportion. His inability to control her while applying the handcuffs and his inability to control his own anger is inexcusable for an officer who is given the right in limited circumstances to use deadly force.
The majority of the media's article specifically quoted the official written constables report, which turns out to be a horrible pack of lies. The media statesman in its written report said almost nothing that did not come directly out of the official constables report.
You can see from watching the movie that all of the following official statements are lies. I listed all the quotes and lies here, check them out for yourself.
I DID watch the video, and I come away with a different analysis than yours. With the exception of the shouting at her and relatively gently pushing her initially, he appeared to be calm (if speaking loudly, and in that situation, with that traffic, I can certainly understand that - he raised his voice no more than she did, come to that), he appeared to be in control of his emotions. He did throw down the ticketbook, but that appeared to be to get it out of the way while he took out his handcuffs and attempted to handcuff her.
To use the kind of force that would have been required in order to get that particularly "little old lady" to comply with being handcuffed would, again, have had you shouting about police brutality, as well. She was uncooperative and belligerant and throwing a tantrum, and if you're so concerned about her being 72, remember that a bone could have broken with the amount of force needed to get her to comply with the handcuffs. She was clearly bound and determined to get back in her car and, no doubt, leave the scene (assuming that she wasn't armed and wasn't aggravated enough to try to run him over).
Now, he COULD have let someone who was argumentative, angry, had already been speeding through a construction zone, get in their car without acknowledging in any way that they had done wrong, and drive away, and pray that they didn't kill someone on their way home, and shown up at her door later with a couple of other officers and arrested her in front of her neighbors, and perhaps that's what he should have done. Perhaps he should have taken that risk with your life and mine, and if she HAD gotten into an accident, and killed someone, you know what? The very people here who are castigating him would be saying that he should have stopped her from getting back in her car.
What speaks loudest in all of this, though, is how forthcoming she was with her side of the story and how everything in the report was lies right up until the point that she became aware that there was video evidence. At that point, she suddenly becomes silent and invisible. That speaks volumes right there, combined with what she said before the tape came out and the tape itself.
The Travis County Constables website, Travis County Constables , describe the Constables duties as follows:
Quote:
The constables serve as a law enforcement agency for Travis County, with county-wide jurisdiction in civil and criminal matters. They process and execute civil process from various courts, including forcible entry and detainers, writs of possession, citations, and executions issued from the justice of the peace courts.
The constables also process and execute misdemeanor traffic and hot check warrants of arrest for Travis County justice of the peace courts as well as other municipalities and counties. They have a truancy program which contacts parents and initiates filings on juveniles who are absent from school.
So what the H*** was the constable deputy doing trying to issue a traffic citation? It seems he was clearly out of his depth.
from what I read in the Austin paper--that stretch of road has people speeding on it all the time--she was not the only one--does not make her right to do it but if you have tried to drive the speed limit or less when people are used to driving the same or above, then you know that she could have been causing road rage by just trying to OBEY the law
don't you think there is a quota going on especially now that tax revenues are down so much
think there will be more tickets written this year than last due to that fact...
he is a big guy--overweight--but I bet he is not that strong really--looks out of condition--and I did not think that she was that overweight--and she seemed to move easier than he did...so I put her down as the more wiley of the pair...
he is the paid professional--the burden to act appropriately is HIS----TO ANTICIPATE and DIFUSE dangerous situations before they escalate is what he is supposed to be trained to do...
whether the person he is trying to arrest is coorperating or not
watch Cops--those guys use force all the time--on people more dangerous and just as beligerent--and they have a poise that this constable does not show..
I wonder how long he has been on the force and how many arrests he has made before--
I bet he really does not have that much experience...
she is on the ground after being hit with the taser--why is he continuing to ASK her to put her hands behind her back--he should kneel down, handcuff one hand and then the other
instead he is still shouting his mantra--put your hands behind your back or you will be tasered again...
this is a guy with a real lack of imagination...but I bet I know who he voted for ...
she has clammed up--she has a lawyer--probably first thing he told her to do was shut up...
and yes it will be difficult t deny her culpability for exacerbating the situation---
hind sight is usually pretty clear--problem is what kind of instruction was he getting over his shoulder mike--he was obviously talking to someone in dispatch while dealing with her...
he could have taken her car keys and prevented her from driving off...
he could have asked her to step back from the road to avoid being hit--he never mentioned that reason--just shoved her
you don't know how angry she was before she got out of the truck--I did not hear her curse him--I maybe heard her say the F word about the ticket but I did not hear her cursing him--that is a fine line of difference there as to how her language threatened him--I did not hear her threaten him--she did say she was going to get back in her truck--but I did not see her try to reach for his summons/ticket book as he reported--
I did not see him do ANYTHING to diffuse the situation--everything he did made it worse--a policeman can't act in that manner...it is too dangerous...
she may not have been any more of a danger to other drivers than anyone else BEFORE she got so mad with the officer
The Travis County SHERIFF gave a comment that he was shocked at what happened because his assessment was that the officer over-reacted--the Sgt who is boss of the constable is supporting what his man did ...no surprise there...
MY question is -- what happened AFTER he tasered her...how many cars showed up--how long did it take them--did someone else take her to booking or did he?
Last edited by loves2read; 06-11-2009 at 03:28 PM..
<< With the exception of the shouting at her and relatively gently pushing her initially,>>
I don't see any gentle pushing, I see violent shoving.
<<he appeared to be calm (if speaking loudly, and in that situation, with that traffic, I can certainly understand that - he raised his voice no more than she did, come to that), he appeared to be in control of his emotions>>
He appeared to me to be emotionally out of control from the moment he pulled her car door open and told her to get out.
<<He did throw down the ticketbook, but that appeared to be to get it out of the way while he took out his handcuffs and attempted to handcuff her.>>
He also threw his handcuffs to the ground in frustration after one brief inept attempt to handcuff her.
<<To use the kind of force that would have been required in order to get that particularly "little old lady" to comply with being handcuffed would, again, have had you shouting about police brutality, as well. >>
Not true, I would completely believe that is what he should have done, and could have done if he were more competent.
<< She was uncooperative and belligerant and throwing a tantrum, and if you're so concerned about her being 72, remember that a bone could have broken with the amount of force needed to get her to comply with the handcuffs.>>
I seriously doubt it. But even if it had, broken bones are not as life threatening as a heart attack which the taser could have easily triggered.
Although given the incompetence of this particular officer, he probably would have broken her neck. I do not believe he should have let her get back in her car and drive away in that outraged emotional state. But there is no excuse for his being unable to restrain her and put her under arrest without using a taser.
<<What speaks loudest in all of this, though, is how forthcoming she was with her side of the story and how everything in the report was lies right up until the point that she became aware that there was video evidence. At that point, she suddenly becomes silent and invisible. That speaks volumes right there, combined with what she said before the tape came out and the tape itself.>>
That does not speak loudly of anything. I'm sure that is nothing more then her lawyer advising her that she should not make any more public statements. That is her right to remain silent.
What does speak loudly is that the video evidence proves that the official statements made by the Constable was a pack of lies, and an obvious attempt at a cover up. That is unforgivable.
Through out much of my career I have worked closely with the Austin Police Department on numerous projects, in addition my brother's entire career has been in law enforcement, from positions as patrol cop, undercover narcotics, swat team, murder detective and advanced positions in the state police. I am very sympathetic to the difficulties they face, but I am also familar with what competent professional police work is like.
This constable deputy was incompetent and totally mismanaged the situation.
You put into words exactly what I was thinking when watching the video. He was probably nervous he'd get in trouble for wrestling down an elderly woman and possibly breaking some bones - she was jumping around a good bit at first and not obeying his orders to get into the getting arrested position so it would have been a safe assumption to make that she was going to resist getting handcuffed and some scuffling would ensue. And some scuffling probably DID ensue once she was on the ground leading to the second tasing (can't watch that part to judge if it was warranted).
He did look like he was calling for backup or trying to figure out how to proceed before the tasing occured - he probably was not sure how to handle the situation.
But then she more than once tried to make a run for it towards her car, announcing she was getting back in the car, maybe rethinking the whole going to jail thing since the officer clearly meant business, but for all he knew she had a gun in the glove compartment. Right before he tases her the first time, she starts to move towards the passenger side of her car. This IS Texas She was not exactly acting mentally stable/smart and who knows what her plan might have been once she reached her car.
Like someone said earlier (not sure if sarcastically?), when an officer pulls you over your job is to look sad and say you're sorry. And hopefully you ARE sad and sorry.
I hope she is extremely embarrassed watching that video and seeing herself announce that he can't arrest her (after volunteering herself for arrest) because she's a 72 year old woman. She clearly thought she could refuse to sign the ticket, tell him he could take her to jail (if I heard right), curse at him and taunt him about how he couldn't possibly arrest such an old lady, and then get back in her car and take off.
Quote:
Originally Posted by love roses
Actually, it looked like he was trying for a while to get her handcuffed. Maybe the fact that she was smaller than him and a lot older is why he didn't throw her to the ground or against the car, but that he just kept asking her to put her hands behind her back. Maybe in his mind, risking a tasering would have been less detrimental to her than breaking her hip, shoulder, arm or something. Either one potentially could be deadly for an elderly person.
Last edited by Indigoblue; 06-11-2009 at 05:01 PM..
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She was not exactly acting mentally stable/smart and who knows what her plan might have been once she reached her car.
