HEB Grocery & "Bring your own bags" (Howe: condo, homes)

[TexasHorseLady]

Originally Posted by Nor Cal Wahine

I think you are missing the point which is that the bag issue is *not* simply an issue of recycling; it's the danger and unsightliness that these bags cause when they float out into the environment. Since there seems to be no way of controlling this influx of flying garbage, banning them is the answer.

Oh, no! Unsightliness! However will we survive!

By the way, I find people who feel that it is necessary to legislate their own preferences on everyone else via bans and such to be extremely unsightly as well as dangerous to the health of anyone exposed to them. Can we ban them, please?

[ATX Wahine]

Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady

Oh, no! Unsightliness! However will we survive!

By the way, I find people who feel that it is necessary to legislate their own preferences on everyone else via bans and such to be extremely unsightly as well as dangerous to the health of anyone exposed to them. Can we ban them, please?

Very predictable of you to sidestep all other practicalities noted (danger to wildlife, children, electrical power lines) and actually take a stance FOR littering just to windmill out a point. This, from the woman who constantly argues for the integrity of the state of Texas.

Guess 'Dont Mess Wth Texas' really doesn't have much meaning to you after all.

[paul6835]

I can't remember the last time I saw a plastic shopping bag littering anything. Maybe I'm just hanging out in the wrong (or right) places.

[TexasHorseLady]

Originally Posted by paul6835

I can't remember the last time I saw a plastic shopping bag littering anything. Maybe I'm just hanging out in the wrong (or right) places.

Yes, I've seen them, but very rarely. (Like, a couple of times a year, maybe.) Maybe it's the neighborhoods I frequent.

[TexasHorseLady]

Originally Posted by Nor Cal Wahine

Very predictable of you to sidestep all other practicalities noted (danger to wildlife, children, electrical power lines) and actually take a stance FOR littering just to windmill out a point. This, from the woman who constantly argues for the integrity of the state of Texas.

Guess 'Dont Mess Wth Texas' really doesn't have much meaning to you after all.

Nor Cal Wahine, I was addressing specifically the unsightliness you mentioned as being a good reason for passing a ban (in other words, making the decision that YOU would choose to make for all the other adult citizens so that they don't risk making the "wrong" decision in your eyes).

To me, the attitude that says that that's just hunky dory is far more dangerous to Texas (and the country as a whole) than any plastic bag could ever hope to be, and if anything should be banned, it should be that.

[scm53]

Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady

To me, the attitude that says that that's just hunky dory is far more dangerous to Texas (and the country as a whole) than any plastic bag could ever hope to be, and if anything should be banned, it should be that.

Spot on! People make all kinds of decisions that I don't agree with - many of them with FAR greater impacts either on me, my family, or our society than an overhyped threat from plastic shopping bags could ever impose. But I recognize that freedom includes the freedom to make bad decisions. And as much as I dislike the bad outcomes from those bad decisions, the intrusion on our liberties - which runs counter to everything that Texas stands for - is worse.

The right path to counter bad decisions is persuasion and education - not the coercive power of government.

[ATX Wahine]

By all means, make the issue of loss of plastic bags your next great civil liberty crusade.

For me it's just a win for the environment, which is a win for everyone, and is one easy to achieve. Call me crazy.

[Trainwreck20]

We legislate environmental controls on power plants, factories, chemical plants, refineries, etc - anything as long as it does not affect someone personally and directly, so that you can actually notice. Currently, cars are the biggest polluters, but they are sacrosanct and off the table. So what do we do? Essentially making coal power plants illegal. Now, we will pay the same for our cars but pay much, much more over time in our electric bills. Cement? Too polluting and not on everyone's mind, so enforce extremely high levels of control (well into diminishing returns) and force jobs over seas and construction prices up. Not a peep from the general public, because the cost is hidden. Refineries? Not in my back yard! And why is my gas price so high? Grrrr...must be the corporations, not the specialize gas they have to make (15 ppm diesel, anyone?) and pollution 'taxes' and controls. We are so hypocritical. Bags pollute? They can't! Because that means we might be somehow responsible and may have to do something other than pay someone else (or pay indirectly) to address the issue.

Anyway, just a stupid rant - we squawk like chickens if we have to DO something, and scream about our liberties and 'the slippery slope (as if this is the first law ever passed) when we have to deal with our personal impact on the environment. Hell, I don't know if plastic bags are really a very significant environmental issue, but at least it gets people thinking (positive or negative). Could you imagine if a serious environmental issue was really tackled? Cars, green house gasses? We might have to do more than remember to bring a bag somewhere......

I am generally conservative when it comes to environmental issues - too many are just political or not well thought out, or the public is told 'look, it will save lives' (true, but you could have saved 1000x as many for the same money by funding healthcare). On the other hand, I grow increasingly pessimistic that we can turn this train before we really do hit some sort of 'law of nature' wall. The smallest attempts are so roundly opposed, that the real ones don't have a prayer.

[verybadgnome]

Originally Posted by paul6835

I can't remember the last time I saw a plastic shopping bag littering anything. Maybe I'm just hanging out in the wrong (or right) places.

I think it depends a lot on where you live. If your residence is near retail you will probably see bags lying around whereas if you are in the back of Steiner Ranch you probably will not. I have found disposable bags in my front and back yard and all around the neighborhood, but have never seen a discarded reusable bag.

[mimimomx3]

Deep down, I really think that it was the big box stores (led by HEB) who lobbied the city to get rid of them. Not for the environment, but for their bottom line. The ban has just reduced their cost of doing business. Not only do they not have to provide bags, they're actually selling them. If the city were really serious about cleaning up the environment, they would ban ALL bags (including produce and the $1 bags).

Personally, I've never seen such a rash of plastic bag trash all over the place.

I also feel like unless there is some public safety concern, government should stay out of business. If a business decides they want to offer free plastic checkout bags, I feel like they should be allowed to do so. I don't consider plastic bags to be a safety concern.