Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Men ALWAYS take a woman's looks into consideration. They may not be #1 on the list when a man gets to a certain point of maturity, but I have no doubt that they are in the top 3, or at least no further down than #5. It goes back to what Steve Harvey wrote in his book about the male ego and how men measure themselves as men, and what they like/need to do after they have achieved those things that make them confident in their manhood.
I have never seen a "successful" man choose as his woman/wife a woman the majority of his peers would find unattractive (for whatever reason), no matter if she did have every other quality he wanted in a woman. I'm not saying it can't be or hasn't been done, because I'm sure it has been... somewhere. I just haven't seen it.
'Interesting' is subjective. What's not interesting to you may be very interesting to someone else. It's simply a compatibility issue, but you make it sound like a character flaw. And for the record, I've never heard of a man dropping a woman because they weren't interested in the same things; that's actually a good thing because it means they don't have to be joined at the hip. I have; however, heard of a man dropping a woman because her looks didn't meet the approval of his "boys" - which takes us back to my first paragraph. Again, I'm not saying it hasn't happened, I'm just saying I haven't seen it.
I'm not sure how you got my statement "consider much more than looks
when looking for a woman" as meaning that successful men don't take
looks into consideration. That is an incorrect interpretation.
As for the rest of your post, apparently you've never seen LL Cool J or Denzel Washington's wives. These are undeniably successful guys whose wives aren't ugly, but we all know they could do a WHOLE lot better in the looks department. If looks are so high on the list, why would they "settle?" It's actually very easy.
I don't know how you define successful but I define it very simply. For me, a successful person is somebody at the fourth or fifth level of Maslow's Hierarchy of needs (Maslow's hierarchy of needs - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). Anybody that can reach the actualized levels of that pyramid - and I mean actually reach, not appear to reach - is successful in my book regardless of income or possessions or social status. However, as it goes people who attain actualization tend to have those things because it's nearly impossible to have that state of being without getting out in the world, working hard, and achieving goals.
An actualized man, doesn't care what his boys think because actualized people are generally ones who set the standards of what others think. NONE of my successful friends date women that I find particularly attractive physically, but they all date women that I would date in a heartbeat because they are good interesting women.
And no, interesting is not subjective. It is concrete and quantifiable. Compatibility has more to do with habit and values. Interesting is the ability to hold a person's interest. Now people have different interests, but I can tell you that most actualized and successful men have interest in much more than a pretty face, nice body, and a sounding board. Most have been there and done that because women are attracted to actualized men anyway. These men want women that "upgrade" them as Beyonce said. The problem is that many women are divas in their head but destitute in reality with no ability to do this and have very little true desire to evolve.
Your idea that I'm insinuating a successful man wants somebody interested in the same things is almost patronizing. Nobody says "hmmm, that's interesting" when they hear stuff that they already think. What makes people interesting in the general sense I'm speaking of is the very fact that they aren't what you're used to. They aren't the run of the mill. Interesting women are intellectually curious. They expose us to new things and appreciate getting exposed to new things themselves. The key here is quid pro quo. I can tell you with certainty that actualized men don't like relationships where they provide all of the insights and destinations and the women provide "uh huhs" and sex.
Yes, interesting is subjective... but the point of this thread is what SUCCESSFUL men want in a woman. I don't think the "interesting" factor is all that hard to figure out... here is my guess.
Successful men want to find success in their home lives as well as in their professional lives. Therefore, the ARE interested in a woman's personality and interests... far more so than her looks. True, they won't date an extremely unattractive woman, but reasonable attractive - that's a go.
"Reasonably attractive" has A LOT of latitude. A LOT of latitude. Attractiveness isn't always about looks alone. A woman who is naturally curious, intelligent, nearly always up beat and optimistic, spiritual, always SMILING, [and by smiling, I mean a genuine smile, not a plastic smile] all these things add to a woman's attractiveness.
I think the guys here will agree that an extremely attractive woman can lose attractiveness points very quickly once she opens her mouth and starts bitchin'... talkin' trash about other people is very UNattractive, because if you talk trash about others, the person listening to you has to wonder "when is she going to start talking trash about me."
I believe successful men seeking a long-term relationship are also looking for a good mother for their future children. And they want someone with whom they can sing "grow old with me, the best is yet to be."
Successful men want to find a woman who will love them on their worst days... such as the day they lose their job, and the day their dog dies. Decent men want to find a woman who has VALUES, STRENGTH, and someone they can TRUST with their deepest held fears and secrets.
Successful BLACK men have learned to not make excuses. They KNOW life is not fair. Everything they got, they have FOUGHT to get. A successful black man oftentimes works 2-3x as hard as a successful white man... or even more than that if he pulled himself up from an impoverished family life situation. Successful black men do not want to hear women who make excuses either... making excuses never helps anyone get ahead in this life. SUCCESSFUL black men know this truth and they live by this truth.
What they are NOT looking for are gold-diggers, and they are NOT looking for someone who is going to order them around all the time and treat them like children.
If you want a successful man, you need to approach the relationship as a PARTNERSHIP from day one... there is a time and place for a man to wine and dine his woman, just as there is a time and place for a woman to pamper her man... but day-in, day-out the relationship needs to be a partnership.
If a man does not find a woman interesting, I'd wager a bet that's because he cannot see a partnership in the relationship. You do not have to share each and every hobby and goal with your life partner, but you should be able to encourage and support one another in each others hobbies and life goals.
You may think I have no business weighing in on this topic, and maybe you're right... but I have been married to a "successful black man" from GA for the past 18 years, and I think that counts for something.
Truth be told, a lot of people won't think of my husband as successful. Financially, we are not well off, never have been. He doesn't make a lot of money, we live pretty much hand to mouth. He has an associates degree and really is not interested in pursuing any further schooling. But that's not important to me.
My husband is successful in my eyes because he's a really good dad, faithful to his wife, loves the Lord Jesus Christ, and holds down a full time job. He's a man of character - that's what, in my eyes, makes a man a "successful man".
Very well said. If more women thought like that, trust me, we would not be having constant debates such as this one. You could not have said it better. I will say, your man is lucky to have you. Your understanding is clear, and I like the fact that you understand that success is subjective. It's still not clear in people's minds (poor souls ). Kudos to you for such great post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyRo
I couldn't really get past your first sentence. I have a serious problem with STRANGERS assuming things about me, and telling me what I need to do.
Let's be fair; we're on the internet and she does not have to know you fully to make a deductive analysis of who you are. She seemingly replied to what you posted. Don't take it the wrong way. I don't think she said anything to offend you. (But her reply came from what you posted/basically a reflection of who you are or may be).
No, you come on. Again, I never said it didn't or couldn't happen. I only said I hadn't seen it. You cannot tell me what I have and have not seen.
LadyRo,
You missed my point. I am sure you have seen men do that. Heck, I have seen women do A LOT underhanded and downright cold blooded things. The difference is I don't project those observations onto ALL women. That is not fair to the women themselves.
My main point from the previous post is there are many different kinds of men and women. As I got ready to enter the dating stage of my life my stepfather gave me some good advice. He told me there are many women in the world I would come across. The overwhelming majority of them are NOT for me. Why? It comes down to preferences, culture, values, behavior, and other factors. He told me the real pool of eligable women for any one man is actually very, very small. According to him, one of my main objectives was to filter out the women available so I could recognize the ones who were truly potential mates. That is the bulk of the battle when looking for a good mate. It was not about thinking I was better than anyone, or even putting people down. It was about understanding the reality that MOST women are not my type, and I am not their type. That is why he always told me to recognize the good woman, the right kind of woman, and don't let her slip away.
It also meant not getting discouraged when I came across the women I am not compatible with. It meant understanding that since the pool I was working with was rather small I had to have patience. Most importantly I could not waste my time worrying about the larger group of women whom I would never date anyway. I couldn't worry about the "low down" women. I had to be on the look out for them, but not overly concerned with what they do. They were not an option anyway.
That is what I was getting at in the last post. Don't concern yourself with what immature men do. Most of the men in ATL are not compatible with you, anyway (if that is where you live). Women must remember that men are not a monolithic group. We are very diverse. The idea of "all men are this way and all women are that way" is so bogus. PEOPLE are diverse. If a woman lets the actions of "the wrong kind of man" negatively impact her perception of ALL men, she is in trouble.
I couldn't really get past your first sentence. I have a serious problem with STRANGERS assuming things about me, and telling me what I need to do.
Lady Ro:
I am sorry my first sentence in my prior post caused you to stumble. It was simply made in reference to your own statements regarding what you have and have not seen...
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyRo
I have never seen a "successful" man choose as his woman/wife a woman the majority of his peers would find unattractive (for whatever reason), no matter if she did have every other quality he wanted in a woman. ...
And for the record, I've never heard of a man dropping a woman because they weren't interested in the same things; ...
Again, I'm not saying it hasn't happened, I'm just saying I haven't seen it.
LadyRo, by widening your circle, I would hope and pray you will find one of the many DECENT men who are out there and looking for a DECENT woman. A DECENT man does not judge women solely on their looks. A DECENT man cares about a woman's interests, personality, faith, values and goals... if all the men you have encountered care ONLY about a woman's looks, and not at all about a woman's interests, then I would advise you to widen your circle of friends and acquaintances.
That's all I was trying to say, and it was only said in reaction to what you had said, and it was only said in the interest of helping you find that special someone you can love and trust - and with whom you can grow old. Have you ever seen old couples walking hand-in-hand? Isn't that what we all want to find in a mate? Someone with whom we can grow old? Judging others by appearances alone is a game played by the young people in our society - the day will come when none of us will be young. A wise man knows this and is looking far into the future when picking a life partner.
Best wishes to you!
Last edited by StPaulEastSider; 05-06-2009 at 10:50 AM..
UPDATE: SHE RESPONDED AND WE CLARIFIED OUR POSITIONS AND THE ISSUE IS RESOLVED.
She did not reply to what I posted, and that's the issue. She answered questions I didn't ask, clarified points I didn't ask (or need) to be clarified, and assumed things about me that she presumed to give me "guidance" about in a condescending manner - all without knowing the first thing about me. Yes, I'm annoyed, because I didn't put anything "between the lines" and she read something there and responded to it, anyway.
If she doesn't have to know me to make a deductive analysis of who I am based on what she thinks I wrote, then I am within my rights to make a deductive analysis of who she is based on how she responded to me and what she actually did write. I took it how she put it out there. End of this point of discussion, thank you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterNY
Let's be fair; we're on the internet and she does not have to know you fully to make a deductive analysis of who you are. She seemingly replied to what you posted. Don't take it the wrong way. I don't think she said anything to offend you. (But her reply came from what you posted/basically a reflection of who you are or may be).
That is what I was getting at in the last post. Don't concern yourself with what immature men do. Most of the men in ATL are not compatible with you, anyway (if that is where you live). Women must remember that men are not a monolithic group. We are very diverse. The idea of "all men are this way and all women are that way" is so bogus. PEOPLE are diverse. If a woman lets the actions of "the wrong kind of man" negatively impact her perception of ALL men, she is in trouble.
I shortened your post to save space, but very well said.
I am sorry my first sentence in my prior post caused you to stumble. It was simply made in reference to your own statements regarding what you have and have not seen...
Thank you for coming back and addressing this. Okay, I can see how my posts might make you think I don't think there are any good black men out there. Rest assured, I know they are out there. I'm not on the BBW (Bitter Black Woman) Committee.
Quote:
LadyRo, my only point was to say there really all decent black men out there who do not judge women solely on their looks, and who do care about what a woman is interested in and also her overall character! Most DECENT men are looking for a reasonably attractive woman, but what constitutes "attractive" is very subjective and is often embodies more than a photograph can convey... a good personality will always add to a woman's "attractiveness" quota. Also, the definition of a "successful black man" needs to include all men who are loyal and dedicated to their families - even if they are not pulling down big bucks.
I actually agree with you. But, I still think a higher premium is placed on looks to a detrimental point for many men. And it all goes back to the reasons Steve Harvey wrote about in his book, one of which is an ego that is fueled by the judgment of other men. And, I only bring that up because in earlier posts the men were telling the women they needed to read and listen to his advice, since only a man can tell a woman what men think and want.
Just an FYI, I'm not the OP who is considering moving to Atlanta. I don't live in Atlanta (anymore), and furthermore, I rarely date. I don't hate men, but I'm just not willing to play the game. Too many games and damaged men out there and I don't have the patience. If I end up with someone, it's going to be because he broke away from the fray, saw me waaay over in a field off a back road in the country taking pics of flowers and wildlife in my floppy sun hat, and sought me out. So, basically, I don't have a dog in this fight. I just interjected my observations for the sake of conversation, just like everyone else. But, I do get your point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliDude1
LadyRo,
You missed my point. I am sure you have seen men do that. Heck, I have seen women do A LOT underhanded and downright cold blooded things. The difference is I don't project those observations onto ALL women. That is not fair to the women themselves.
My main point from the previous post is there are many different kinds of men and women. As I got ready to enter the dating stage of my life my stepfather gave me some good advice. He told me there are many women in the world I would come across. The overwhelming majority of them are NOT for me. Why? It comes down to preferences, culture, values, behavior, and other factors. He told me the real pool of eligable women for any one man is actually very, very small. According to him, one of my main objectives was to filter out the women available so I could recognize the ones who were truly potential mates. That is the bulk of the battle when looking for a good mate. It was not about thinking I was better than anyone, or even putting people down. It was about understanding the reality that MOST women are not my type, and I am not their type. That is why he always told me to recognize the good woman, the right kind of woman, and don't let her slip away.
It also meant not getting discouraged when I came across the women I am not compatible with. It meant understanding that since the pool I was working with was rather small I had to have patience. Most importantly I could not waste my time worrying about the larger group of women whom I would never date anyway. I couldn't worry about the "low down" women. I had to be on the look out for them, but not overly concerned with what they do. They were not an option anyway.
That is what I was getting at in the last post. Don't concern yourself with what immature men do. Most of the men in ATL are not compatible with you, anyway (if that is where you live). Women must remember that men are not a monolithic group. We are very diverse. The idea of "all men are this way and all women are that way" is so bogus. PEOPLE are diverse. If a woman lets the actions of "the wrong kind of man" negatively impact her perception of ALL men, she is in trouble.
You are right, I don't move in a wide circle. I also have no desire to - but please note that I have not complained about not being able to find a good man. I'm not looking on purpose. Here's what I just said to someone else who gave me some good advice (that I'm not going to take, but hope somebody else uses, lol):
I rarely date. I don't hate men, but I'm just not willing to play the game. Too many games and damaged men out there and I don't have the patience. If I end up with someone, it's going to be because he broke away from the fray, saw me waaay over in a field, off a back road in the country, taking pics of flowers and wildlife in my floppy sun hat, and sought me out.
I didn't quit men. I quit the "game". I'm living my life on my terms and doing things my way and if I remain single, I'm so very okay with that. I do admit that the longer I stay happily single, the less attractive and more burdensome a relationship seems.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
). Kudos to you for such great post. 
