Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I think atheists are a threat to the religious because, at least in the realm of the religions that conceive God as an enforcer of his law, are people that are outside of these laws. Some, and I would say, most, people are hierarchical pack animals that are programmed to follow wherever the pack leader decides to go. The pack leader can use all of his persuasive abilities or, failing that, threat to keep the pack behaving properly. Most human organizations from armies to religions are organized in this manner. Organizations train their members to fear, avoid and, if necessary, destroy the outsider. From a religious point of view, atheists are the ultimate outsiders because they deny the existence of any and all deities and bring into question the legitimacy of the entire hierarchy. Atheists are the anarchists of religion.
There was a parable that a famous LDS man made up. You see, he was sitting next to a die hard athiest on a plane, the athiest was telling him there was no God, but the LDS man said, to the contrary that he knew there was a God. the athiest told him to prove it. When he could not find a logical way to prove it the athiest mocked him. The LDS man's response was something like this:
"I have a challenge for you" he said "I want you to describe for me what salt tastes like, assuming I have never tasted it." "well," said the athiest "umm... well, it's not sweet" "You are telling me what does not taste like" said the LDS man "I still don't know what it does taste like" "ok, so what's your point?" asked the athiest "My point is that I have spiritualy tasted salt, I cannot tell you what it tastes like, but I know that I have tasted it and you cannot tell me otherwise"
I like this parable...
I like the story as well, and at the risk of getting a bit off topic, I'd like to add my own atheist perspective.
To me, the believer is indeed saying he has spiritually tasted salt, but in addition to this simple description, he is asserting that the salt is responsible for making him strong, keeping his marriage together and getting him a promotion at work. In essense, the believer is claiming he has magic salt.
I have no doubt that believers feel something. It's what they ascribe to this something that I don't believe.
Last edited by nvxplorer; 06-12-2007 at 12:15 PM..
It is clear to me that you are not much interested in salient debate. You are only interested in posting your own shall we say "narcissic" perspectives.
You cherry pick what you answer because you have no reasonable answer or for the convenience of evasion,then sail off into the world of debating yourselves.
Because though they knew God, they did not glorify him as God, or thank him, but rather became vain in their reasonings, and their heart,lacking understanding, was darkened.
Professing to be wise, they became fools:
And changed the glory of the incorruptible God into the likeness of an image of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and reptiles. -Romans 1:21-23
There is no discourse here, only the banter of angry men that fancy themselves among the intelligentia and hide behind the cloak of superficial rationalism.
You profess a belief in evolution yet there is no evolution in your thought. Evolution of human thought will bury you not elevate you to your desired status of philosophical respectability.
Your Oden JC analogy reflect the simplicity of your understanding.
I tried to give you a chance to exhibit objective discourse and you only presented subjective prejudice of pre conceived notions and assessments, in my opinion born of "narcissism".
I am sorry, one human being to another, if you think that is rude. You have the willingness to be disrespectful to the majority and impose your minority beliefs upon the majority. There are many things I must do in life that I do not believe in that make me uncomfortable. I am and will always be sufficiently respectful of my fellow man to make exceptions for his comfort even to my discomfort. I will yield to no man my rights to express my beliefs. Should I decide to yell there is a God in a crowded room I reserve the right to do so. Should you decide to yell back there is no god you deserve the right to do so. You have no right to muzzle my first call.
I will leave you now to discuss your disbeliefs. Have a blessed day.
It is clear to me that you are not much interested in salient debate. You are only interested in posting your own shall we say "narcissic" perspectives.
You cherry pick what you answer because you have no reasonable answer or for the convenience of evasion,then sail off into the world of debating yourselves.
Because though they knew God, they did not glorify him as God, or thank him, but rather became vain in their reasonings, and their heart,lacking understanding, was darkened.
Professing to be wise, they became fools:
And changed the glory of the incorruptible God into the likeness of an image of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and reptiles. -Romans 1:21-23
There is no discourse here, only the banter of angry men that fancy themselves among the intelligentia and hide behind the cloak of superficial rationalism.
You profess a belief in evolution yet there is no evolution in your thought. Evolution of human thought will bury you not elevate you to your desired status of philosophical respectability.
Your Oden JC analogy reflect the simplicity of your understanding.
I tried to give you a chance to exhibit objective discourse and you only presented subjective prejudice of pre conceived notions and assessments, in my opinion born of "narcissism".
I am sorry, one human being to another, if you think that is rude. You have the willingness to be disrespectful to the majority and impose your minority beliefs upon the majority. There are many things I must do in life that I do not believe in that make me uncomfortable. I am and will always be sufficiently respectful of my fellow man to make exceptions for his comfort even to my discomfort. I will yield to no man my rights to express my beliefs. Should I decide to yell there is a God in a crowded room I reserve the right to do so. Should you decide to yell back there is no god you deserve the right to do so. You have no right to muzzle my first call.
I will leave you now to discuss your disbeliefs. Have a blessed day.
Who exactly is cherry picking and avoiding difficult subjects. I for one would gladly invite you to ask any question. Just put the questions or challenges you have in SPECIFIC, deciferable sentences, maybe use bullets. I invite you openly to challenge me anywhere you see a hole in my logic, feel free to PM me if you like, and I am sure that anybody else here would invite you to do the same, we're all civil, we are all open to discussion.
And this is a personal request, if it's not too much to ask, your excessive use of the word "narcissic" is starting to get on my nerves, if you must use it go ahead, but really, it would look much better if you could find some other words like "selfish", "self-centered", etc. Thank you.
Kaintuck, I've been thoroughly enjoying your posts in this thread. What you say on page 9 of this thread should also be said in What's Wrong With Believing In God? in response to the rant comparing Jesus to Santa Claus. That, too, is insulting.
I'm glad your voice is in the forum. Thank you and bless you. Without voices like yours and other Christians with the courage to take a stand, the din of emptiness would be deafening.
I agree. I don't think society "looks down or has a low opinion of atheists."
I think a lot of atheists keep it to themselves because they think they will be stigmatized. Any Christian wouldn't have a low opinion of an atheist although I can't say the same for the reverse. It is true that atheists sometimes look down on people of faith.
Spunky1: kudos to your honesty. But frankly what has gotten my back up way too many times is the obvious distain that accompanies my response to a Christian's question about my faith, usually in the rather self-serving perspective of "And what Church do you attend on the Sabbath?" Assumption followed by arrogant distain. After all, if it's true (and I have my doubts, really) that a huge majority of Americans are Christian, then I suppose they "know" they are right.
So we do tend to look down on believers of what we "know" to be a faith based on supernatural mythology that constantly denegrates any logical observance of occurance (i.e: science). Apparently science has no validity if it counters the dogma, so we feel like good old fashioned sensibilities are routinely ignored. how can you look up on folks with THAT contrived set of values?
I like the story as well, and at the risk of getting a bit off topic, I'd like to add my own atheist perspective.
To me, the believer is indeed saying he has spiritually tasted salt, but in addition to this simple description, he is asserting that the salt is responsible for making him strong, keeping his marriage together and getting him a promotion at work. In essense, the believer is claiming he has magic salt.
I have no doubt that believers feel something. It's what they ascribe to this something that I don't believe.
I really notice how the word atheist has a certain stigma associated with it. I also notice that when most people even say the word atheist their faces seem to contort as though they've just walked past a dumpster full of rotting vegetables and caught a whiff of something unpleasant. I think I mentioned once on a post that polls have shown that atheists are placed lower than any group, even homosexuals, when they were asked who they could consider voting for in an election. I think if you looked at various groups of individuals who have a negative stereotype you could work your way down the list from overbearing used car salesmen to illegal immigrants to hookers and as you continued your downward spiral to the very bottom position you'd probably end up with death row inmates and child molesters. But just one notch above those guys is my group, the atheists. Just one level above us is the winos, peeping toms and convicted felons. I know there's no way we could beat those guys in a popularity contest. So my basic question is this. Why do people have such a negative view of us just for something we don't believe?
To me, atheists just seem over all pessimistic people.
I used to be one myself, and I would know. What is there to look forward to in life if all you plan on doing one day is dying and turning into nothingness? Even if my beliefs are false, at least I'll never know they are. If they are real, then I will get to enjoy eternal salvation.
And it isn't atheists I have a problem with. It is some of the extremists that I do. There seems to be a lot online, but that is because you guys can shout your opinions out anonymously.
To me, atheists just seem over all pessimistic people.
I used to be one myself, and I would know. What is there to look forward to in life if all you plan on doing one day is dying and turning into nothingness? Even if my beliefs are false, at least I'll never know they are. If they are real, then I will get to enjoy eternal salvation.
And it isn't atheists I have a problem with. It is some of the extremists that I do. There seems to be a lot online, but that is because you guys can shout your opinions out anonymously.
Your experience is your own and applies to nobody else. I look forward to a lot of things in life.
To me, atheists just seem over all pessimistic people.
I used to be one myself, and I would know. What is there to look forward to in life if all you plan on doing one day is dying and turning into nothingness? Even if my beliefs are false, at least I'll never know they are. If they are real, then I will get to enjoy eternal salvation.
And it isn't atheists I have a problem with. It is some of the extremists that I do. There seems to be a lot online, but that is because you guys can shout your opinions out anonymously.
I respect your opinion, but it is YOUR opinion and does not speak for all atheists, or "ex-atheists". I accept that this lfe is all that I have, and intend to live it to the absolute fullest. I do not have an afterlife to repent, so I must do the right thing NOW. I am very open with anyone who inquires about it, that I am a proud atheist (not just online as an anonymous screen name). Also, you said "if my beliefs are real then I will get to enjoy eternal salvation". It seems to me that you are not entirely sold on the fact that there is a god, but that it's the safer route, just in case. Interesting.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
A Salty comeback!
. Just one level above us is the winos, peeping toms and convicted felons. I know there's no way we could beat those guys in a popularity contest.
So my basic question is this. Why do people have such a negative view of us just for something we don't believe?
