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As for denial, for you and your pals, it ain't just a river in Egypt.
Not sure what you are talking about. What are you referring to with this river in Egypt craziness?
Additionally, why are you so obsessed with Egypt? Are you Egyptian?
Are you familiar with your own culture and where you come from? Do you practice your culture? Because the obsession of yours with Egypt and the affiliation of African descendants with the continent sounds delusional.
What pals are you speaking about? Are you hearing voices?
Last edited by ReineDeCoeur; 01-08-2014 at 05:26 PM..
I'm black and agree with this somewhat.. The Egyptians were NOT all black but they weren't all Nordic white as many deluded white racists claim.. It was probably a mix.
That guy is all over the place. Says that black Americans mustn't be interested in Egypt because they lack direct ties. But doesn't say the same of the Eurocentrics.
He has a clear agenda. And its not just to refute those who claim that Egypt was a "black" civilization.
Exactly. People such as he make me wonder if they have insecurity issues, as they are literally obsessed with the cultures and cultural/ethnic identification of others and intent on forcing their opinions on those peoples. If you are content and happy with your own, you don't feel the need to carry on in that manner.
I did and I didn't mention anything about Middle Eastern anything.
African Americans and some ancient Egyptians have a link to "sub Saharan" DNA. Whether it is the same exact DNA or not, the presence of that DNA to whatever degree either way or to what extent said people are involved in either society, it seems to have been in both societies.
You posted evidence showing it. Man, I should be used to the intellectual dishonesty by now, but surprisingly, I am not.
@cachibatches: Ah, so my gut instinct was right: It was a waste of time even bothering to reply to a person like you. As we’ve all shown from page 1, you’re unable to support any of your claims with legit, unbiased evidence. And you’re unwilling to open up your mind to any discussion with people who do offer you answers..
You just haven't read though the thread, because you are intellectually lazy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by seanturner
@ To you, anything you don’t agree with or understand is "intellectually lazy", “silly” or “afro-centric” (ie. you resort to insults against the entire Igbo people just because you don’t understand or like a poster’s argument.) ..
You are all of those things. The ten foot mud piles are not in any way the equivalent of pyramids.
Quote:
Originally Posted by seanturner
@ After all your posts you have yet to show that you actually do know about Ancient Egyptians and other African civilizations. If you were not merely pretending (like by trying to impress us with your rattling off of names of West African civilizations in your OP) to be an expert you would know that:..
I know far, far more about Africa than you, and obviously so. This thread will stand in cyber space forever.
Quote:
Originally Posted by seanturner
@ 1.) Black Africans have always lived north of the Sahara and in the Sahara, since ancient times. So your Eurocentric idea of Egyptians having no “black” genes because there is little “sub-Saharan” genes is unfounded. Black Africans in northeast Africa will obviously not have the same DNA as sub-Saharans.:..
Intellectually dishonest and lazy. I have repeatedly said that there was Sub-Saharan "black" input. Just not as much as Eurasian and North African. All evidence posted by me and CK agrees on that.
Native North African, by the way, look like Middle Easterners, because they evolved in the same latitude.
Quote:
Originally Posted by seanturner
@ 2.) It is a gross double-standard that to you some modern Egyptians are only dark-skinned now because of the slave trade; but yet immigration since ancient times of people from Palestine, the Ptolemies, Romans, Arabs etc... had no effect. The only thing we seem to agree on is that yes modern Egyptians are descended from the ancients. That’s what I said from the start. But you’re unjustified to say that the only change in appearance is a darkening because of slaves..:..
I have posted the names of the geneticists who have said it. Will be happy to post web addresses, though there is one I can't find. You won't read through them however, and if you do, you will not understand, as you can't even be bothered to read through and understand this thread:
You see, history is not what you want it to be. It is what it is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by seanturner
@ And don’t ignore the fact that Upper Egypt was always the more populous and usually the dominant region during Ancient Egypt.....:..
Afrocentric gibberish. Upper and Lower Egypt switched off as areas of gravity. One was not always dominant over the other.
Quote:
Originally Posted by seanturner
On a related note, look at northern Sudan today. Due to Arabs immigrating since the 7th century (not a mass migration but a small trickling over time), we see modern Nubians specifically of the north who have intermixed with them and took on some Eurasian features. Now why on Earth would not the same thing have happened in Egypt? Egypt has always been a land richer in resources than Nubia, attracting more immigrants, and became part of the Arab world, so why would they skip over Egypt and only migrate to Nubia?
Wrong. Nubian, like Egyptians, were always intermixed, though with much more Sub-Sahran. The back migrations into Africa date to the stone ages.
Quote:
Originally Posted by seanturner
3.) Modern consensus agrees that Ancient Egyptians had biological, socio-cultural, linguistic and historic ties with black Africa(ns), and others.
Some black Africans, but certainly not West and central Africans. Again, Persians speak an Indo-European language. Egyptians spoke from a different language group than most West Africans. I am more closely connected to Persia than you are to Egypt. Fact. But you don't see me going on about being Persian.
Quote:
Originally Posted by seanturner
Now, to anyone else who is interested in Ancient Egypt and so you don’t fall for cachibatches’ false, unsupported claims, take a look at the works from the following non-Afrocentric peer-reviewed scholars for proof of my 3 points:
Actually, I am the only one who had presented evidence. Well, CK presented evidence supporting me. Its good to have opponents like you guys.
Quote:
Originally Posted by seanturner
Barry Kemp, Christopher Ehret, Nancy Lovell, Kanya Godde, S.O.Y. Keita, Ian Shaw, Robert Morkot, Frank Yurco, Michael Rice, Sonia Zakrzewski, Toby Wilkinson, Kathryn A. Bard.
Had you not been so intellectually lazy, you would know that Keita and the others agree with me. Afrocentrists like to try to turn some of their work around, but everyone who has ever looked at it agree that the Egyptians are largely the same people that they have always been. Let us post this clip from Keita yet again:
So there we have it: you have no idea what you are talking about. Most of these points have already been reviewed, and you were simply too lazy to read through the thread. Are you going to learn something now? Of course not.You are going to re-state your debunked points with more ad hominem, because in addition to being lazy, you are also dishonest.
That guy is all over the place. Says that black Americans mustn't be interested in Egypt because they lack direct ties. But doesn't say the same of the Eurocentrics.
He has a clear agenda. And its not just to refute those who claim that Egypt was a "black" civilization.
Again, it is not a matter of "interest." There are Afrocentrists who state that African Americans come from Egypt.
You seem not to understand that this is my thread and I determine what it is about. It not about what you want it to be about so that you can launch your ad hominems and straw men.
Exactly! What's wrong with people, of African descent or not, studying African history. He says he likes West African history and to him apparently that's ok even though he's of European descent. But if a person of African descent is interested in history of other places, to him it's that we're Afrocentrics and claiming these civilizations as our own history.
No matter what we tell him he refuses to understand. As if there's rules on what certain people can study.
Simply astonishing. Of the bunch, you are by far the most intellectually dishonest and lazy.
1. Most blacks are totally disconnected from Africa and don't know enough to talk about it. South Africa under apartheid they could have related to, because of the parallels with the Jim Crow South. Indeed even some one like Oprah hoped that Gates would have found evidence that she had Zulu ancestry, not taking into account that virtually no slaves were brought from South Africa to the Americas. We don't even know enough about Africa to have some intelligent notion about which regions are ancestries are likely to be. So we either ignore it, or we adopt a pan African stance, adopting the whole continent as our own.
2. There is not a lot of documentation about sub Saharan West/Central Africa before the arrival of the Europeans that is readily accessible to the average person. Combine that with the lack of over all interest and this is why not much is spoken about it. The best book that I have seen on pre colonial Africa was by Walter Rodney, a Guyanese and much respected throughout Africa. His book, "How Europe Undeveloped Africa" is out of print. But it provides lots of information about the economies and societies of pre colonial sub Saharan Africa. This is not to say that every thing in it one might agree with, especially as we have much more information than was available in the 70s when it was written.
Again, showing your ignorance of your own real history.
Not sure what you are talking about. What are you referring to with this river in Egypt craziness?
Additionally, why are you so obsessed with Egypt? Are you Egyptian?
Are you familiar with your own culture and where you come from? Do you practice your culture? Because the obsession of yours with Egypt and the affiliation of African descendants with the continent sounds delusional.
What pals are you speaking about? Are you hearing voices?
I have read Herodotus, Josephus, Plutarch, Suetonius, Caesar, Cicero, Livy, Dio, Tacitus etc.
If you would like to talk about any of them, I can do that just as easily as I can discuss Ibn Battuta, the Epic of Sundiata, or Black Athena. Its all good with me.
I don't inherently care that much about Egypt. They taught Europeans art and architecture and West Africans nothing. I just can't stand Affrocentrists lying about history to steal the ancestors of others when they could be contributing to glorifying the achievements of West Africans that deserve to be remembered.
It would be comical if not so sad: 34 pages of Afrocentrics trying to fight for their right to claim Egypt whiles claiming not to be Afrocentrics and claiming not to want Egypt. And not one of you has tried to engage me or each other in any kind of extensive conversation on the West African topics that I said that I would like to discuss.
I have read Herodotus, Josephus, Plutarch, Suetonius, Caesar, Cicero, Livy, Dio, Tacitus etc.
If you would like to talk about any of them, I can do that just as easily as I can discuss Ibn Battuta, the Epic of Sundiata, or Black Athena. Its all good with me.
I don't inherently care that much about Egypt. They taught Europeans art and architecture and West Africans nothing. I just can't stand Affrocentrists lying about history to steal the ancestors of others when they could be contributing to glorifying the achievements of West Africans that deserve to be remembered.
It would be comical if not so sad: 34 pages of Afrocentrics trying to fight for their right to claim Egypt whiles claiming not to be Afrocentrics and claiming not to want Egypt. And not one of you has tried to engage me or each other in any kind of extensive conversation on the West African topics that I said that I would like to discuss.
Really, really sad.
Such a poor response. My initial post stated that I do not support Eurocentrism or Afrocentrism, and my posts indicate the same. Clearly it upsets you that you cannot throw someone in the box opposite from yours. Deal with it. Your posts, however, indicates an unhealthy obsession with peoples and ancestries other than your own.
Thus my questions that you conveniently ignored. Perhaps, you will now answer them.
Why are you so preoccupied with Egypt?
Are you Egyptian?
Are you familiar with your own culture and where you come from? What is the culture and where are you from?
Do you practice your culture?
These questions are presented to you because your apparent preoccupation with Egypt and the affiliation of African descendants with the continent sounds delusional.
Why would I get into any discussion with you regarding West Africa? Nothing in your initial post indicated any desire to discuss West African cultures and histories. The post simply went on a tirade about some Afrocentrists and Egypt, while you spouted your race-based and Eurocentric views of the nation.
Further, I already know my origins from West Africa to South Asia. Don't need any help from someone who only interested in relegating other peoples history to no more than to the racial ideologies drummed up in Europe.
Last edited by ReineDeCoeur; 01-09-2014 at 08:55 PM..
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