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I think the differences between the Portland Metro and Greater Seattle are sometimes understated, as in a lot of times people really prefer/gravitate towards one over the other. My friends living around Portland have yet to come up this way for a visit, and we have been down to PDX exactly once since moving up here. Yes, they're both PNW regions, but it's kind of like comparing San Diego to LA, or SF to Sacramento (probably the better comparison). I do think Portland has a lot of scenic beauty in Mt Hood, Forest Park, and the Columbia River Gorge, but I think the downtown area is way too far gone to see it as a selling point, whereas Seattle has really taken noticeable strides to clean up its act (despite having a long, long way to go). I'm not trying to bash Portland as I can understand why people might prefer it over Seattle (cheaper, quirkier, less corporate, more laid back), but I would sooner move to Bend or Eugene if we left WA for Oregon.
I have lived for many years in both metro areas and I have families in both Portland and Seattle and the surrounding burbs of each.
Look, the OP isn't talking about moving to the Pearl District or inner Portland any more than they are talking about moving to Capital Hill or Belltown in Seattle. They are looking at suburban areas. And for the most part, suburbia is suburbia.
For example, Camas WA in the Portland metro is pretty similar to Bothell/Woodinville in the Seattle metro. Similar schools, similar age subdivisions with similar homes, many built by the same builders. Both have their own small downtown areas with upscale shops and boutiques. Also the same exact big box shopping and similar restaurants nearby. And both are about the same distance commute to the central city. The differences will be that Camas is probably going to be about 20% cheaper in an apples to apples comparison of homes and neighborhoods because the greater Portland metro is just cheaper than the greater Puget Sound metro. Also, Camas is going to have VASTLY less traffic because it is basically the edge of the metro area with nothing but national forest and the Columbia River gorge behind it. Whereas Bothell and Woodinville are thoroughfare crossroads packed with people commuting to towns further out on I-405 and the the other roads in the area. So while Camas has basically no traffic hassles, it can be crushing in the Bothell/Woodinville area. Camas is also about 5x closer to the airport.
For a couple of work-from-home types who can live anywhere, these are pretty big considerations. There is a reason why SW Washington is increasingly popular for remote work people and people who travel a lot. One can also do lots of tax arbitrage since WA has no state income tax and OR has no state sales tax. There is a reason why there are big mall and big box complexes literally at the base of each of the freeway bridges across the Columbia. And when you drive over to those malls to shop at Costco, Best Buy, Ikea, Home Depot, etc. on the OR side of the river it often looks like half the cars in the parking lots have WA plates. Is it ethnical or technically legal to do all your major shopping in OR if you live in WA? No. But everyone seems to do it anyway. And no one mails in their unpaid sales tax to the WA Dept. of Revenue as they are supposed to. In fact, there are a bazillion Amazon lockers all over North Portland next to the bridges so people even do their Amazon shopping tax free by having their expensive packages sent to Amazon lockers on the OR side of the river.
For someone coming from the DC area to live in the Pacific Northwest with remote work jobs that do not tie them to a specific location, they are well advised to look at both the Puget Sound area and the SW Washington suburbs of Portland. There are nice suburbs on the Portland side too, but you'll be getting income tax down there so slice about 9% off your paycheck just to live across the river. Yes you pay sales tax in WA but for most professional class people the taxes will be lower in WA.
Location: Was Midvalley Oregon; Now Eastside Seattle area
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^ and Oregon follows the Federal 1040 form, which must be filed with OR-40 form. Oregon does not tax SS income but all other income is taxed. Hence WA is a better state to retire in if coming from a income tax state.
I have lived for many years in both metro areas and I have families in both Portland and Seattle and the surrounding burbs of each.
Look, the OP isn't talking about moving to the Pearl District or inner Portland any more than they are talking about moving to Capital Hill or Belltown in Seattle. They are looking at suburban areas. And for the most part, suburbia is suburbia.
For example, Camas WA in the Portland metro is pretty similar to Bothell/Woodinville in the Seattle metro. Similar schools, similar age subdivisions with similar homes, many built by the same builders. Both have their own small downtown areas with upscale shops and boutiques. Also the same exact big box shopping and similar restaurants nearby. And both are about the same distance commute to the central city. The differences will be that Camas is probably going to be about 20% cheaper in an apples to apples comparison of homes and neighborhoods because the greater Portland metro is just cheaper than the greater Puget Sound metro. Also, Camas is going to have VASTLY less traffic because it is basically the edge of the metro area with nothing but national forest and the Columbia River gorge behind it. Whereas Bothell and Woodinville are thoroughfare crossroads packed with people commuting to towns further out on I-405 and the the other roads in the area. So while Camas has basically no traffic hassles, it can be crushing in the Bothell/Woodinville area. Camas is also about 5x closer to the airport.
For a couple of work-from-home types who can live anywhere, these are pretty big considerations. There is a reason why SW Washington is increasingly popular for remote work people and people who travel a lot. One can also do lots of tax arbitrage since WA has no state income tax and OR has no state sales tax. There is a reason why there are big mall and big box complexes literally at the base of each of the freeway bridges across the Columbia. And when you drive over to those malls to shop at Costco, Best Buy, Ikea, Home Depot, etc. on the OR side of the river it often looks like half the cars in the parking lots have WA plates. Is it ethnical or technically legal to do all your major shopping in OR if you live in WA? No. But everyone seems to do it anyway. And no one mails in their unpaid sales tax to the WA Dept. of Revenue as they are supposed to. In fact, there are a bazillion Amazon lockers all over North Portland next to the bridges so people even do their Amazon shopping tax free by having their expensive packages sent to Amazon lockers on the OR side of the river.
For someone coming from the DC area to live in the Pacific Northwest with remote work jobs that do not tie them to a specific location, they are well advised to look at both the Puget Sound area and the SW Washington suburbs of Portland. There are nice suburbs on the Portland side too, but you'll be getting income tax down there so slice about 9% off your paycheck just to live across the river. Yes you pay sales tax in WA but for most professional class people the taxes will be lower in WA.
That's fine, and I never said NOT to check out SW WA-- I just said people tend to have a preference for one versus the other and Seattle is a lot closer to being a major city than Portland is-- especially if they're coming from the DC area (where I happened to live for a good chunk of my life before CA).
I personally prefer being closer to Seattle (closest city would be SF if we're considering total population, but nowhere the density), SeaTac (for international flights and cross country flights), Vancouver BC (better food, scenery, and a more fun weekend adventure than PDX imo), Mt Rainier NP, Tacoma, the Olympic Peninsula, the San Juans, etc. Mt St Helens is a gem, but I'm fine with a bit of longer drive to it than from PDX. We have barely scratched the surface and only seen a few parts outside of the Greater Seattle area and are looking forward to a weekend in Victoria, BC and Walla Walla wine country, let alone the North Cascades or the far west/north reaches of Olympic National Park.
In Vancouver WA, you have much better access to the Oregon Coast, Willamette Valley (I think Woodinville is great, but it's nowhere near as extensive), and other things in Oregon that people in Oregon like. I never disputed the fact that it's cheaper to live in SW WA, but we are just going to have to agree to disagree about the regions being basically interchangeable minus costs and traffic. That's akin to me saying the suburbs of the East Bay are interchangeable with the suburbs of the Sacramento area, and I would vehemently disagree, while others might not.
There are whole subforums dedicated to Vancouver, WA AND Portland that I'm sure the OP can scour for more opinions. Again, I wasn't attacking Oregon or Portland, but they came to the WA subforum and were specifically looking here, so do forgive me for remaining on topic.
That's fine, and I never said NOT to check out SW WA-- I just said people tend to have a preference for one versus the other and Seattle is a lot closer to being a major city than Portland is-- especially if they're coming from the DC area (where I happened to live for a good chunk of my life before CA).
I personally prefer being closer to Seattle (closest city would be SF if we're considering total population, but nowhere the density), SeaTac (for international flights and cross country flights), Vancouver BC (better food, scenery, and a more fun weekend adventure than PDX imo), Mt Rainier NP, Tacoma, the Olympic Peninsula, the San Juans, etc. Mt St Helens is a gem, but I'm fine with a bit of longer drive to it than from PDX. We have barely scratched the surface and only seen a few parts outside of the Greater Seattle area and are looking forward to a weekend in Victoria, BC and Walla Walla wine country, let alone the North Cascades or the far west/north reaches of Olympic National Park.
In Vancouver WA, you have much better access to the Oregon Coast, Willamette Valley (I think Woodinville is great, but it's nowhere near as extensive), and other things in Oregon that people in Oregon like. I never disputed the fact that it's cheaper to live in SW WA, but we are just going to have to agree to disagree about the regions being basically interchangeable minus costs and traffic. That's akin to me saying the suburbs of the East Bay are interchangeable with the suburbs of the Sacramento area, and I would vehemently disagree, while others might not.
There are whole subforums dedicated to Vancouver, WA AND Portland that I'm sure the OP can scour for more opinions. Again, I wasn't attacking Oregon or Portland, but they came to the WA subforum and were specifically looking here, so do forgive me for remaining on topic.
This is the Washington forum. Both Vancouver/Camas and the Seattle suburbs are in Washington. Clark County WA (Vancouver area) is about 500,000 so it's not a small area. It is one of the fastest growing areas of the state.
There is a Seattle-specific subforum for information specifically about the Seattle area.
Someone coming from DC might well prefer Puget Sound. But they should at least be aware of all the options the state has to offer that might suit their interests and criteria. In fact, according to the OP, one of their criteria is:
Quote:
and ideally not a ton of traffic or stroads.
Having lived in Seattle for a decade, I'm not sure I know which part of it has "not a lot of traffic". Unless you are talking about Bremerton or Vashon Island. On the other hand, many parts of the Vancouver/Camas area do not have a lot of traffic unless you are trying to get onto one of the bridges to Portland. Both my wife and I commute diagonally across the Vancouver metro from Camas to north Vancouver and traffic is never really a factor at any time of the day or night. The freeways can get clogged on the bridge approaches but the surface streets are never very congested or slow you down at all. Certainly nothing like Seattle or the east side. It would be instructive to look at a google map of Vancouver compared to say Bellevue, Kirkland, Renton, or Lynwood on any random afternoon at 4 pm and see which has more red.
Last edited by texasdiver; 02-21-2024 at 09:42 PM..
This is the Washington forum. Both Vancouver/Camas and the Seattle suburbs are in Washington. Clark County WA (Vancouver area) is about 500,000 so it's not a small area. It is one of the fastest growing areas of the state.
There is a Seattle-specific subforum for information specifically about the Seattle area.
Someone coming from DC might well prefer Puget Sound. But they should at least be aware of all the options the state has to offer that might suit their interests and criteria. In fact, according to the OP, one of their criteria is:
Having lived in Seattle for a decade, I'm not sure I know which part of it has "not a lot of traffic". Unless you are talking about Bremerton or Vashon Island. On the other hand, many parts of the Vancouver/Camas area do not have a lot of traffic unless you are trying to get onto one of the bridges to Portland. Both my wife and I commute diagonally across the Vancouver metro from Camas to north Vancouver and traffic is never really a factor at any time of the day or night. The freeways can get clogged on the bridge approaches but the surface streets are never very congested or slow you down at all. Certainly nothing like Seattle or the east side. It would be instructive to look at a google map of Vancouver compared to say Bellevue, Kirkland, Renton, or Lynwood on any random afternoon at 4 pm and see which has more red.
Thanks for the geography lesson, truly.
I think its funny that you're mentioning your personal commutes while ignoring the fact that the OP (like my spouse and I) will be working from home, thus nullifying a typical 9-5 commute. Seattle traffic on I-5 and 405 does indeed suck during rush hour, but trust me, it's not in the same league as DC, let alone LA or the Bay Area. We run errands just fine without sitting in soul crushing traffic and we don't have to cross a bridge or state line to get what we need and save on sales tax.
I definitely think they should check it out and do their due diligence, but we are quite happy where we are, just like you are where you, so again we will just have to agree to disagree.
Quick update: Thanks to everyone's help, we actually found our house. For anonymity I'm not going to say where exactly, but one of the areas mentioned here. It's a tough market but this forum truly is a goldmine for information.
Quick update: Thanks to everyone's help, we actually found our house. For anonymity I'm not going to say where exactly, but one of the areas mentioned here. It's a tough market but this forum truly is a goldmine for information.
Location: Was Midvalley Oregon; Now Eastside Seattle area
13,060 posts, read 7,493,946 times
Reputation: 9787
Quote:
Originally Posted by pomotac
Quick update: Thanks to everyone's help, we actually found our house. For anonymity I'm not going to say where exactly, but one of the areas mentioned here. It's a tough market but this forum truly is a goldmine for information.
Congratulations. Not a tough market-It just seems tough to new comers. It's fairly normal.
Please give us a hint: In the Seattle area, South-North I-5 corridors, ferry side, or SW Washington? Oregon or DrySide Washington as outside chances?
Congratulations. Not a tough market-It just seems tough to new comers. It's fairly normal.
Please give us a hint: In the Seattle area, South-North I-5 corridors, ferry side, or SW Washington? Oregon or DrySide Washington as outside chances?
Congrats. Tons of good neighborhoods/towns/cities in Western Washington, but Seattle remains among the best especially in terms of amenity and connectivity. Welcome to the area!
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. Oregon does not tax SS income but all other income is taxed
. Hence WA is a better state to retire in if coming from a income tax state
.
