The Vaccine doesn't stop the spread of Covid/Delta (pharmacies, living)

[Botev1912]

Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth

Part of the point in everyone getting vaxxed during a pandemic, is to stop the virus from spreading, and mutating in the process into a more deadly form. That's what the mandate is about. That's why people in the Seattle area (I hear from an unvaxxed friend) are so angry at unvaxxed people. Because the unvaxxed still present a target for the virus, that will allow it to evolve into new variants.

OP, I hadn't heard there was a heightened risk of clotting with the vaccines. Is that with all of them, or just the Moderna and Pfizer ones?

The virus can also spread to animals and keep mutating that way too. That is why it's almost impossible to eradicate it.

[flyingsaucermom]

Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth

Part of the point in everyone getting vaxxed during a pandemic, is to stop the virus from spreading, and mutating in the process into a more deadly form. That's what the mandate is about. That's why people in the Seattle area (I hear from an unvaxxed friend) are so angry at unvaxxed people. Because the unvaxxed still present a target for the virus, that will allow it to evolve into new variants.

OP, I hadn't heard there was a heightened risk of clotting with the vaccines. Is that with all of them, or just the Moderna and Pfizer ones?

Clearly the vaccinated are still a target too, especially since immunity drops to the point of needing a booster in just 6 months (or 2 months if you got the J&J like I did). So the vaccinated still allow for it to mutate too.

Conclusion: No end in sight.

[rantiquity]

Originally Posted by sll3454

My comments are in red.

Why didn't you use quotations marks instead of highlighting in red?
Easy ..try for example" [....] in front and [/....] at the end with the word QUOTE between the brackets.

[Country Roads]

The ""pandemic"" won't end until we get rid of the elites.

[sll3454]

Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth

Part of the point in everyone getting vaxxed during a pandemic, is to stop the virus from spreading, and mutating in the process into a more deadly form. That's what the mandate is about. That's why people in the Seattle area (I hear from an unvaxxed friend) are so angry at unvaxxed people. Because the unvaxxed still present a target for the virus, that will allow it to evolve into new variants.

OP, I hadn't heard there was a heightened risk of clotting with the vaccines. Is that with all of them, or just the Moderna and Pfizer ones?

It's actually the other way around. The natural path for a virus to take is to mutate to less-deadly strains. The most-deadly strains wipe out their hosts and therefore do not spread. The less-dangerous strains spread widely and become endemic, but no longer a huge threat.

However, when you introduce a leaky vaccine in the presence of a virus, you change that course. (See Marek's disease in chickens). Some of the variants are stopped by the vaccine. Then those that can resist the vaccine become the dominant variants. This is what happened with delta. Delta existed over a year ago, but only accounted for a small percent of cases. Then, after vaccines were introduced, delta became the dominant strain. People who thought they were protected unknowingly spread it, and when cases spiked, the vaccine was of no use. (See Israel.)



The vaccine is limited in what it can do because it only targets the spike - and the spike is the part of the virus that keeps mutating. The spike will continue mutating (and, unfortunately, will not be limited by the availability of letters in the Greek alphabet). Therefore, boosters will always be necessary. And boosting with the same, original vaccine eventually will not help, because the spike will have changed too much. You may have lots and lots of antibodies, but they will be the wrong kind. (Actually, we do not know what will happen with repeated boosters. There has been no study on the safety or efficacy of this.)


Without pressure from a leaky vaccine, viruses do not mutate into more deadly forms. They mutate into less deadly forms. That is why this widespread, mandated vaccination of young, healthy people is a big, big mistake. At best.


Vaccinated people present a big target for vaccine-resistant variants. While those vaccinated people may not become severely ill, they do catch and spread the variants. Vaccination may benefit the vaccinated, but vaccination will not stop the spread.



Those who have recovered from the virus, though, have immunity that is diverse, durable, and long-lasting. When your body faces the threat of the entire virus, rather than just the spike, you develop defenses against various parts of the virus, and not just the spike. Tests can even determine whether a person's "immunity" comes from vaccination or natural infection, because those who had the virus also develop antibodies, T-cells, and B-cells against the N-protein and the S-protein, whereas those who were vaccinated but not infected naturally will only have defenses against the S-protein.


It's still early, but one study has shown that those who got covid after being vaccinated did not develop strong defenses against the N-protein, but only used their vaccine-provided defense against the spike. While this defense did prevent more serious illness, it makes me wonder: does this mean that those people do not benefit from the infection by gaining the same kind of immunity as the unvaccinated virus-survivor? (Everything else I've written here is what I've learned from virologists, immunologists, and other experts; this last idea is one I have not heard expressed by those experts, but it is a logical conclusion.)



There is an additional reason vaccination can never wipe out the virus: it has animal reservoirs. It is already in a high percent of the deer population, in cats (big cats), bats, mink, and others.



--------------------------


The risk of clotting is with all three of the vaccines available in the U.S. It was first noticed in Johnson&Johnson. The FDA even paused its use for a while last spring. This also is one reason J&J was not approved for youth, as the clotting problems were noticed mostly in younger people, a population that doesn't normally have that issue.

[Snowman05]

The long awaited variant Bill Gates joyiously hinted about seems to have been unleashed in South Africa. People are rolling up their sleeve again. This variant is said to threaten children. Hide your kids people. It wasn't enough for them to unplug grandma, they want it all.

[Arcos]

Originally Posted by sll3454

My comments are in red.

I agree with some of your points. However, you are wrong about the delta variant. That broke out and spread like wildfire in India, resulting in a MASSIVE spike that killed hundreds of thousands officially (and millions, unofficially) well before even 5% of their population were vaccinated. So, repeatedly citing Delta as evidence for your claims is off, unfortunately. It is entirely coincidental that Delta spread after vaccination, as proven by its spread in India BEFORE vaccination. The vaccines do protect against Delta, with levels of efficacy well above 50%, but only if the vaccination was recent. And while immunity from infection wanes, immunity from hospitalization and death lasts longer.

Hence while India’s delta spike was almost vertical and brutal (hospital systems failing, people dying on the streets or in parking lots or choking when their oxygen ran out), the more vaccinated West has seen a ‘wave’ not a spike, with much reduced fatality.

[Ruth4Truth]

Originally Posted by flyingsaucermom

Clearly the vaccinated are still a target too, especially since immunity drops to the point of needing a booster in just 6 months (or 2 months if you got the J&J like I did). So the vaccinated still allow for it to mutate too.

Conclusion: No end in sight.

J&J immunity drops after just 2 months? I hadn't heard that. That's what I got, and I haven't gotten a booster yet. They're only beginning to become available where I live. I was going to put it off as long as possible, otherwise we'll end up getting them every 2 months, won't we? Doesn't make sense.

[Ruth4Truth]

Originally Posted by Arcos

I agree with some of your points. However, you are wrong about the delta variant.

Delta, schmelta! Now we have Omicron to worry about! Fresh out of South Africa. Some countries are canceling air service from southern Africa, as a result. The UK has discovered 2 cases so far.

[Ruth4Truth]

Originally Posted by sll3454

it's actually the other way around. The natural path for a virus to take is to mutate to less-deadly strains. The most-deadly strains wipe out their hosts and therefore do not spread. The less-dangerous strains spread widely and become endemic, but no longer a huge threat.

However, when you introduce a leaky vaccine in the presence of a virus, you change that course. (see marek's disease in chickens). Some of the variants are stopped by the vaccine. Then those that can resist the vaccine become the dominant variants. This is what happened with delta. Delta existed over a year ago, but only accounted for a small percent of cases. Then, after vaccines were introduced, delta became the dominant strain. People who thought they were protected unknowingly spread it, and when cases spiked, the vaccine was of no use. (see israel.)

the vaccine is limited in what it can do because it only targets the spike - and the spike is the part of the virus that keeps mutating. The spike will continue mutating (and, unfortunately, will not be limited by the availability of letters in the greek alphabet). Therefore, boosters will always be necessary. And boosting with the same, original vaccine eventually will not help, because the spike will have changed too much. You may have lots and lots of antibodies, but they will be the wrong kind. (actually, we do not know what will happen with repeated boosters. There has been no study on the safety or efficacy of this.)

without pressure from a leaky vaccine, viruses do not mutate into more deadly forms. They mutate into less deadly forms. That is why this widespread, mandated vaccination of young, healthy people is a big, big mistake. At best.

Vaccinated people present a big target for vaccine-resistant variants. While those vaccinated people may not become severely ill, they do catch and spread the variants. Vaccination may benefit the vaccinated, but vaccination will not stop the spread.

Those who have recovered from the virus, though, have immunity that is diverse, durable, and long-lasting. When your body faces the threat of the entire virus, rather than just the spike, you develop defenses against various parts of the virus, and not just the spike. Tests can even determine whether a person's "immunity" comes from vaccination or natural infection, because those who had the virus also develop antibodies, t-cells, and b-cells against the n-protein and the s-protein, whereas those who were vaccinated but not infected naturally will only have defenses against the s-protein.

It's still early, but one study has shown that those who got covid after being vaccinated did not develop strong defenses against the n-protein, but only used their vaccine-provided defense against the spike. While this defense did prevent more serious illness, it makes me wonder: Does this mean that those people do not benefit from the infection by gaining the same kind of immunity as the unvaccinated virus-survivor? (everything else i've written here is what i've learned from virologists, immunologists, and other experts; this last idea is one i have not heard expressed by those experts, but it is a logical conclusion.)

there is an additional reason vaccination can never wipe out the virus: It has animal reservoirs. It is already in a high percent of the deer population, in cats (big cats), bats, mink, and others.

.