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I think that it's the assault on the intentions of "outsiders" that irks me. Everyone comes from somewhere.
This is true. The intentions of newcomers are not to "ruin the place" and everyone's ancestors came from somewhere- even Native Americans came to this continent from Asia tens of thousands of years ago, and I'm sure the large game they hunted to extinction wasn't happy about their arrival.
The old timers who are being swamped with the issues of a town growing too fast (they lose treasured family connections as people are forced to move away to afford to live, their children can't afford a house etc.) are in many cases having a crappy experience. They didn't want to change or choose it, it was forced on them. And so I think they are valid to speak up about their experience.
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bartonizer
... I fully understand the irritation and frustration of seeing the area you love go in a different direction, I really do. But in most cases, there's not much we can do about it. After all, it's the other edge of the sword of living in a society where you're free to move around. As Mayfair said, we have to coexist, there's really no other option.
...
Those with the money will be the ONLY ones who can afford to exist in popular spots, especially WA with Property Tax obligations and no 'homestead' / exemption for the elderly to be allowed to stay in the communities they invested their life to make desirable (for others... those who can now afford it). Seniors and locals will be displaced, and these communities will automatically morph into what those with the money desire, or think they desire. Likely morph into the very places they left before imposing their value set on the desirable places they sought. (governance changed by popular (paid / advertised) vote)
Those with the money will be the ONLY ones who can afford to exist in popular spots, especially WA with Property Tax obligations and no 'homestead' / exemption for the elderly to be allowed to stay in the communities they invested their life to make desirable (for others... those who can now afford it). Seniors and locals will be displaced, and these communities will automatically morph into what those with the money desire, or think they desire. Likely morph into the very places they left before imposing their value set on the desirable places they sought. (governance changed by popular (paid / advertised) vote)
Such is the USA. (quick to forget).
I think most Washingtonians would agree that making property tax provisions for long term residents and the elderly is simply the right thing to do, period. A number of states have these provisions within their tax codes. It's not like these residents are asking for a free ride or handout. Most have spent decades working very hard and paying into a system while building their homes and raising their families here. Some are even multi-generational families. Forgetting about politics for a moment, as a society, we should take care of and respect these long terms residents. This is something that can and should change at the state level.
I know its been voted on before and the people of WA agreed. Somehow it got overturned, though I'm not sure how. But this is still an ongoing issue. Senator Fortunato put forth a constitutional amendment to change this in 2020. I'm not sure where it's at at the moment. But it needs to happen, IMO, for the good of all Washingtonians. Young or old, it doesn't really matter. Let's do what makes sense as a society. Everyone gets old some day (assuming you live that long) and if you put in the time working hard in your younger years, paying into the tax system, there should be something to show for it in the long run.
While I agree we live in a capitalist society, we can still do the right thing by our citizens. I can think of countless cases where I've met wonderful elderly folks living in now very high end areas around Carmel and Monterey. The only reason they can stay in their homes is because of Prop 13. If that was ever overturned, they would be kicked the curb immediately and have to leave the state due to living on very limited, fixed incomes. When you see their experience with your own eyes and listen to them tell stories of their youth, of wars fought, homes built where there were none on sand dunes, you realize in very simple terms, this is the right thing to do.
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
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WA State supreme Court struck down 747 (as usual), but it did not give specific benefit to senior citizens / fixed income. There have been overall property tax caps on counties, but the county can easily work around that by shifting the total property taxes (including a lot of commercial / invest / natural resources,). And still sticking it to the homeowners (including seniors). I can easily contest my commercial appraisals using 3 methods. Home owners are really stuck, tho I frequently contest that as well. Problem... Taxing at Highest and Best use, and using sold comps, artificially values all properties as spiffed and ready for immediate sale. WA has so many blatant errors in the fair valuations, that it is yet another 'broken' yet very lucrative process.
I have been a tax advocate for seniors for 39 yrs in Washington, after being force to leave Colorado due to property taxation of our ranch, rated as highest and best use to convert to a 'California Special' development.Mega garages, micro lot size. (Before our Colorado county had an AG exemption).
WA will not be coming to the rescue of those who can no longer afford property taxes. My county appraiser directed me to sell to CA buyers, and suggested his parents were moving up and would buy it and never complain about my $14,700 annual property taxes (up from $800/ yr.).. Same home, just more worn out. same acreage, same schools (just more of them and a lot more other pigs feeding at the trough.)
I am much more appreciative of what generations before me contributed to provide very nice communities for us. Their tax contributions did not make these communities attractive. It was their values set and personal leadership, vision casting, and millions of hours of passionate community service.
Tad lacking in current recipients of the gravy they are enjoying from the sweat and sacrifice of previous generations.
Off-topic but relevant...why hasn’t a separate category for Bellingham been created in this forum? There is plenty of interest/commentary, and if Tri-Cities has a separate section (no offense, but it gets very little action), how hard can it be to create one for Bellingham?
BTW, I lived in San Diego when it was actually cheap to live there, and I felt about San Diego as MtnSurfer feels about Hermosa Beach and Monterey. I loved San Diego and I still miss it but I just couldn’t live there anymore, as MY San Diego was only a memory. After the Great Recession I left, and I was plenty bitter about it and I’m STILL trying to adjust to where I now live. But nothing ever stays the same, people are always trying to improve their lives, so you accept change or leave and try to adapt.
My kid & their spouse loved the Bay Area, and intended to stay, but they couldn’t stand the place anymore and moved to...Colorado! And, my kid tells me that every trailhead, every trail, every ski area is crowded, crowded, crowded, and parts of the town that they took me to only a year ago is now filled with homeless people and their tents.
If you relocate, rkcarguy, you will be the “outsider”. I genuinely hope people will be more welcoming to you than what I have experienced in this state.
This is a very common societal dilemma and human experience that is in no way unique to any single location. Thomas Wolfe Was Right: You Can't Go Home Again. I've experienced this very same thing with my own hometown of Hermosa Beach, CA. Schools were torn down and replaced with multi-million $ homes. Locals were priced out of the market by wealthy outsiders, etc... It will never be the same to me as I once experienced and enjoyed it as a child and young man growing up in the 'once' sleepy little, mostly middle class, beach town. Those days are gone forever and yet will always be remembered with great fondness. Although I know I will never live there again. Were fellow locals bitter about it and possibly some still to this day? Yes, of course. But do I blame those Outsiders for jacking up the prices of real estate whether they be wealthy foreign or domestic investors? No, not really. We live in a supply and demand economy like much of the modern world. So who am to say someone can't or shouldn't buy property in my hometown? Even if that means prices and associated taxes going up to insane levels? For some its simply worth it and for good reason. It really is a beautiful (Hermosa) little beach town.
"You can't go back home to your family, back home to your childhood, . . . back home to a young man's dreams of glory and of fame . . . back home to places in the country, back home to the old forms and systems of things which once seemed everlasting but which are changing all the time... back home to the escapes of Time and Memory."
"The idea that it is impossible to return home and to the past is commonplace today and a hallmark of modern consciousness. Yet generations of Americans have longed to go home, either to their actual childhood homes or to metaphorical homes located somewhere in the past." -- You Can't Go Home Again: Homesickness and Nostalgia in U.S. History
I will say I ended up finding a place to live and raise my children that reminded me of my hometown in many ways. That was Monterey, CA. That is now my kids' hometown. We almost bought there and I still work remotely from there. But the timing just wasn't right and then the same cycle repeated with crazy prices for old beach shacks that were once owned by middle class fisherman. But no one ever denies the beauty of that stretch of coast in the Monterey Bay including Big Sur to the south. It is, IMO, the most beautiful coastline in the entire state. We knew that going in the second time. But it was still so worth living there even if for that chapter of our lives while raising our kids. Here's a view from our window where we watched the sunset over the ocean every night.
Derek
More like this, please! We may shared experiences such as living in a particular place, but that doesn't mean we can't look at our life options as individuals and make decisions accordingly. And because of that, oftentimes we'll come to different conclusions. Doesn't mean that one outcome is better or worse across the board, just that it's better for one person or family at that particular time.
You're right about Monterey, though. Lovely...even though I couldn't afford it short of a substantial lottery payout.
More like this, please! We may shared experiences such as living in a particular place, but that doesn't mean we can't look at our life options as individuals and make decisions accordingly. And because of that, oftentimes we'll come to different conclusions. Doesn't mean that one outcome is better or worse across the board, just that it's better for one person or family at that particular time.
You're right about Monterey, though. Lovely...even though I couldn't afford it short of a substantial lottery payout.
Yeah, if I ever win the lotto, I'll buy a house in Carmel overlooking the ocean. I remember so many times walking along those beaches in mid-winter with the sun out thinking this has got to be one of the most beautiful places to live year round. Only, I would probably split my time between the PNW and Monterey. The rugged Oregon and Washington coasts have a majestic beauty all their own not to mention the mountains.
I spent an amazing day at the coast a couple of weeks ago. Sometimes its actually warmer there in the winter than inland.
Off-topic but relevant...why hasn’t a separate category for Bellingham been created in this forum? There is plenty of interest/commentary, and if Tri-Cities has a separate section (no offense, but it gets very little action), how hard can it be to create one for Bellingham?
Happygrrrl, CD creates subforums based upon user activity and nothing more. Beyond several rant threads telling people to 'stay away' or how wonderful Bellingham is, there's simply not enough traffic to form an entirely new subforum. I actually started one and know what is required after speaking with the moderators. I had to prove there was significant activity based upon the number of threads and interaction/interest within those threads. I was actually lobbying for the entire 'Central Coast' of CA. But they gave us Monterey instead which was at least something. Though to this day CD members from Santa Cruz and San Luis Obispo counties wonder why they were left out in that decision. What I've noticed since moving to the PNW is that CD is not very active in either WA and OR beyond a very vocal few. And others are not very welcoming - surprise, surprise. I hear Reddit may be more active for these areas including Bellingham.
Quote:
BTW, I lived in San Diego when it was actually cheap to live there, and I felt about San Diego as MtnSurfer feels about Hermosa Beach and Monterey. I loved San Diego and I still miss it but I just couldn’t live there anymore, as MY San Diego was only a memory. After the Great Recession I left, and I was plenty bitter about it and I’m STILL trying to adjust to where I now live. But nothing ever stays the same, people are always trying to improve their lives, so you accept change or leave and try to adapt.
My kid & their spouse loved the Bay Area, and intended to stay, but they couldn’t stand the place anymore and moved to...Colorado! And, my kid tells me that every trailhead, every trail, every ski area is crowded, crowded, crowded, and parts of the town that they took me to only a year ago is now filled with homeless people and their tents.
If you relocate, rkcarguy, you will be the “outsider”. I genuinely hope people will be more welcoming to you than what I have experienced in this state.
Yep, we have family from San Diego who moved to CO which we did as well for a number of years. Some are still there while others have ventured elsewhere. The Bay Area is ridiculously overcrowded and overpriced compared to just about anywhere else in nation. So its obvious why many would want to leave. But some were trapped there because of their job requirements. Now, with covid, it changes everything. I was just reading an article about this as many for the first time are allowed to work remotely. Companies who traditionally discouraged telecommuting have completely changed their policies. Some are even selling their office spaces to save money. So workers both young and old are taking advantage of this new opportunity. Bottom line is folks from every state and nation are exploring new places to live with their new found freedom. So there's no stopping this trend or wishing it away by telling people how bad it is, etc... It is the new normal regardless if the newcomers are welcomed or scorned for changing the old ways and raising prices. They will soon become the new face of the PNW as it changes with more people from all over the nation and world.
My kid & their spouse loved the Bay Area, and intended to stay, but they couldn’t stand the place anymore and moved to...Colorado! And, my kid tells me that every trailhead, every trail, every ski area is crowded, crowded, crowded, and parts of the town that they took me to only a year ago is now filled with homeless people and their tents.
If you relocate, rkcarguy, you will be the “outsider”. I genuinely hope people will be more welcoming to you than what I have experienced in this state.
It seems to follow a trend, doesn't it? Bellingham too, will be consumed and it's image as an "awesome place" will pass. It already has, in my perspective, but ones perspective is exactly that.
My long term relocation/retirement plans include lots of acreage and a much lower population. We are "homebodies" with a small group of friends, most of which have already preceded us in leaving the area. I see things as being "more to gain" there and putting up with my time left here. Ultimately, we may find more ex-Washingtonians where we decide to go.
Stealthrabbit, I posted awhile back that my grandmothers taxes had approached the $6,000/year point, on a place they had built new and paid $190K for, fully furnished and landscaped, in 1994. She just got hit for another $28K in valuation and this was very "light" for the area (mostly due to the house being now outdated and aging). The neighbors have a larger home which was just assessed for an additional $207K, for a total of $875K, pushing their taxes up just shy of $10K/year. It wasn't that long ago, when my whole house payment wasn't that much!
I was just reading an article about this as many for the first time are allowed to work remotely. Companies who traditionally discouraged telecommuting have completely changed their policies. Some are even selling their office spaces to save money. So workers both young and old are taking advantage of this new opportunity. Bottom line is folks from every state and nation are exploring new places to live with their new found freedom. So there's no stopping this trend or wishing it away by telling people how bad it is, etc... It is the new normal regardless if the newcomers are welcomed or scorned for changing the old ways and raising prices. They will soon become the new face of the PNW as it changes with more people from all over the nation and world.
Derek
This is a double edged sword though, housing prices are already very high here, which will demand higher pay when people relocating to cheaper places can and will work for less. It will result in a "chase the bottom of wages" for work from home that's going to leave the super expensive housing locations high and dry in the long run. I could perform my work from home, for example, and if I moved somewhere with cheaper housing I could take a 25% pay cut and still have a much easier life financially. Furthermore, the company I work for would be able to be more competitive/profitable and I would spend less time and money commuting.
Take it a step further and our next administration opens up more outsourcing and globalism, all this work from home could turn into work for foreigners instead and then you've got sky high housing and NO JOB.
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