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It is silly to complain about big box stores. They have to be located somewhere and require big parking lots. You should be happy the big box stores are located in the suburbs rather than in it or near downtown.
Most of the newer shopping centers have decent aesthetics and landscaping. Older developments can be improved with landscaping.
Much of the traffic in Mount Pleasant is beach traffic and some people driving through to downtown Charleston and other places south and north. Downtown Charleston tourism and Patriot Point tourism contributes to Mt Pleasant traffic.
You said something about suburbs having fake downtowns but a downtown is just restaurants, retail, bars, entertainment venues, office buildings, government buildings, parks, etc. If a suburb has those things in a town center like the one in Mount Pleasant, they aren't fake. I like the aesthetics of that town center more than King Street, and the stores in there like Barnes and Noble and Belk with the movie theatre. There are a lot more trees in the Mt Pleasant town center than on King Street plus quaint fountains.
I had thought there was a traditional movie theater in downtown Charleston but I'm not seeing it on Google maps. Seems like a lot of downtown residents are driving to the burbs to see a film. If there was way to block downtown residents from visiting the burbs, that would help traffic in the burbs.
big box stores located downtown generally are going to have a garage or something nearby rather than a surface lot, see the publix in west edge.
Most traffic in Mt. Pleasant has to do with you've got about 100k people going along Colemand or 17
Town Center isn't a 'downtown' it's a large strip mall.
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"dreaming of Glacier National Park"
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CharlestonData used the expression "fake looking downtowns" while talking about suburbs. I assumed he was talking about shopping centers like Mount Pleasant Town Centre which does seem to be trying to be more like a downtown than most shopping centers. Perhaps he means the ones like Sandhills in Columbia that have some condos. These places aren't fake if you can buy stuff in em or live in em. He seems to have animosity for suburbs and kind of rose colored glasses regarding downtown areas, especially Charleston. There's a lot you could do to make downtown Charleston more athestically pleasing. It is kind of a gritty seaport city in my view.
Traffic in Mount Pleasant isn't only because of people who live in Mount Pleasant. People who tout Charleston for tourism should know this. You are right next to barrier islands with beaches, and near the most hyped up downtown in the south. It is located on a state highway. That's not your typical suburb.
There are massive parking lots in national parks. Parking lots are a fact of life. We can't parachute in to Costco.
It seems like every suburban town in SC has its traditional downtown. Simpsonville, Greer, Summerville, Lexington, etc. Those downtown areas have not been knocked over for big box stores or condos. Simpsonville has redeveloped some old textile buildings into condos.
I don't think most of the people moving to SC have a problem with suburbia. That's where most of them live.
Last edited by LakeMan45; 01-06-2024 at 03:29 PM..
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"dreaming of Glacier National Park"
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The Post's preferred policies match up with the policies of states people are leaving to move to SC. The anti-suburb and anti-development stuff is why housing costs got jacked up in those states. It didn't stop development, just raised costs.
The Post and really all of the state newspapers are not good cheerleaders for the state. Their basic template is "SC is the worst in x" . Reporting on population growth has to be awkward for them especially SC being no. 1 in population growth percentage after the covid years.
I've yet to see anybody in the media who was beating up on SC during covid express surprise SC is #1 in population growth. It seems like they didn't believe their rhetoric.
Last edited by LakeMan45; 01-06-2024 at 09:07 PM..
The Post's preferred policies match up with the policies of states people are leaving to move to SC. The anti-suburb and anti-development stuff is why housing costs got jacked up in those states. It didn't stop development, just raised costs.
The Post and really all of the state newspapers are not good cheerleaders for the state. Their basic template is "SC is the worst in x" . Reporting on population growth has to be awkward for them especially SC being no. 1 in population growth percentage after the covid years.
I've yet to see anybody in the media who was beating up on SC during covid express surprise SC is #1 in population growth. It seems like they didn't believe their rhetoric.
I have always wondered how many people actually pick where to live based mainly on how "conservative" or "liberal" a state is? I know that it can certainly a factor but is it #1 or #2 on the average person's check list? I have met people that have said "I aint moving to Mississippi because its too conservative" or "I aint moving to California because its too liberal" But when you talk more with them there are different layers issues, and preferences, and financial reasons behind those statements that get lumped into a catch all "liberal" or "conservative"
So to your point...all the bad stats or statements about SC are likely outweighed by pure economics and quality of life which may override any negatives especially if they dont impact the individuals as much or the extent that they have a choice and control over what they want and where they live.
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"dreaming of Glacier National Park"
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I agree most people don't pick a place only due to politics. I would prefer to live in California over most states due to its weather, epic coastline and Sierra Nevada mountains. But the cost of living, high taxes, crime tolerance and other factors make it less desirable.
People often say the south grows due to its weather but California has ideal weather and people are leaving it.
In my view, SC really isn't a conservative state. Most of our elected officials are corporatists and they end up at the same place as the left if the corporations support it. A lot of our officials would run as Democrats in blue states.
Well here is one list we didnt make.50 worse run cities. I guess if it was the 50 worse run states... we would be on the list given there are 50 states.....the question would be where on the list...LOL
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"dreaming of Glacier National Park"
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I would say generally the national media is more positive about California and similar states than southern states.
For example, you probably will not see most of the national media talk about San Fran's infamous map plotting something undesirable in the streets.
The governor of Florida mentioning the map and actually showing it in a debate probably led to more people knowing about this map than the national media has combined. If the national media constantly harped on this map, it probalby would lead to less people moving to California.
More negative national press about California would redound to SC's benefit (if you want growth) given you only have so many options if you want warmer weather, more sunny days and access to beaches. I don't think you will see the Post compare SC favorably to California.
Last edited by LakeMan45; 01-07-2024 at 11:49 AM..
Traffic in Mount Pleasant isn't only because of people who live in Mount Pleasant. People who tout Charleston for tourism should know this. You are right next to barrier islands with beaches, and near the most hyped up downtown in the south. It is located on a state highway. That's not your typical suburb.
Tell me you don't live here while not telling me you don't live here (or haven't for very long). We know what tourism traffic is and what local traffic is. Going into work at 7AM today is not tourism traffic. Sitting in chocked up traffic backed up on 41 and on 17 north of IOP Connector is certainly not tourism traffic. It's just the daily commute.
Traffic and growth has been an issue for Mount Pleasant. The town has an approach to how to improve it, but there's no such thing as a silver bullet to fix it. It takes a combination of efforts. Sadly it does take a certain amount of "pull your head out of your rear end this is no longer the small fishing village that your parents grew up in". The hypocrisy that people can have here is pretty big. They complain about traffic but then melt down when the Town needs to cut a sliver off the corner of Boone Hall to align an intersection. They complain about Costco coming and then proceed to spend lots of money there and later admit they love the fact they don't have to drive across town anymore to go to the one in West Ashley. But, will be right back protesting the next big box store that wants to come. They complain about commercial property being developed on land that's been zoned for commercial for years, that it's destroying the natural area for the poor baby deer while sitting in their home that's part of a subdivision that didn't exist 20 years ago on land that was complete woodlands.
The Town has a strategic plan that's multifaceted but was heavily modified due to the politics of the NIMBYers. The original plan was to increase alternate roads to move traffic off some of the main arteries this is the completion of Billy Swells parkway and the realignment of Longpoint on 17 to facilitate that alternative. Work with the State on expanding 526. Design residential and commercial hubs through the "town" to move office space and goods/services closer to residential centers. Within the Hubs they would allow higher density and taller buildings that scaled up from the roadway. Hubs would be surrounded by typical single family detached neighborhoods. They would increase the biking capacity between hubs and invest more in smarter public transportation. The problem hit when the NIMBYers forced the town to remove the higher density portion of the hubs and reduced the allowable building height. This was followed by the push for workforce housing initiatives that started to try and take the areas zoned for commercial to bring those goods and services closer to the residential areas and allowed zoning changes to residential.
The "town" with push from the mayor and the NIMBYers imposed large impact fee assessments to all new construction which hit commercial extremely hard. Rents are already through the roof in Mt.P and land is a premium. They're shockingly (sarcasm) finding it hard to develop much of their commercial spaces because of this. This drives prices for goods and services way up for those that do come in. So people don't shop at these new stores as much. The businesses don't have the cash reserves in may cases and burn out in 6 months of opening. Land owners not able to sell their land for development then try to have it rezoned (see above) for residential which undermines the plan. People moving from out of state seem to be willing to pay the impact fees on their smaller home than the commercial developments. So the NIMBYers want to whine about traffic then proceed to shoot themselves in both feet.
They've made it in the castle and now they want to raise the draw bridge.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LakeMan45
It seems like every suburban town in SC has its traditional downtown. Simpsonville, Greer, Summerville, Lexington, etc. Those downtown areas have not been knocked over for big box stores or condos. Simpsonville has redeveloped some old textile buildings into condos.
Unless you want to consider the "Old Village business district" downtown, Mount Pleasant doesn't have a centralized official downtown area. Geographically there are challenges it's faced due to growth pushing north in a relatively straight line.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LakeMan45
I don't think most of the people moving to SC have a problem with suburbia. That's where most of them live.
This is an area where I disagree with Charlestondata. You are correct he's very pro high density. But I don't believe people are moving to this area to live in high density. Some may, but most where I live that have moved in are either retirees or are predominately younger families looking for neighborhoods with some level of yard and space for their kids to play. I feel you are correct in that they are choosing suburbia and not choosing high density. I will grant that many of the newer neighborhoods have postage stamp sized lots, but they aren't flocking to or demanding multi household buildings or are attached town home style living. I believe the people who do pick up the available town homes are doing so out of pricing.
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