Is God’s Love conditional or unconditional? (salvation, souls, hell)
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Is God’s Love conditional or unconditional?
The existence of hell seems to indicate quite clearly that God hates some of us and that that hate negates unconditional love by setting a condition that if we do not do exactly as commanded, that love is withdrawn.
Even if there is no hell, any king of eternal punishment goes against unconditional love.
Some think that when we sin, we sin against God as well as the victim here on earth. Unconditional love should always forgive regardless of the sin as far as God would be concerned.
Conditional love would say that the sinner must repent.
The problem is the unrepentant sinner.
When meeting God for judgment, if the sinner cannot see why he should repent or if he feels that whatever issue at hand is not a sin, does God’s unconditional love apply or is it cast aside somehow so that God can have the option of punishment?
This may never happen as God is said to have omnipotent persuasive powers but of this I am not sure and you may want to correct me on this because God, it seems, could not convince Satan to do His bidding.
Is God’s love then unconditional and no hell is required because we are all forgiven thanks to that love?
Or
Is God’s love conditional and there is a hell for those who do not do as commanded and repent?
Regards
DL
Location: northern Vermont - previously NM, WA, & MA
10,747 posts, read 23,804,636 times
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I find it hard to fathom that god hates anyone, especially given the free will we have. I know god loves me unconditionally and I certainly don't need anyone else to validate that for me. I can't stand judgemental religious people who speak as if they were made the authority to speak for god while cherry picking their own ideology from scripture. I don't buy it. When I see a sunset, or I'm by the ocean, or in the mountains I feel closer to god than I ever would in church.
According to Gods' Word, which is where I find my answers concerning spiritual/eternal things...Him being my authoratative Source...
God's love IS, in fact, conditional. His blessings upon your life are contingent upon your obedience to His commandments.
If you do not read the Bible...then you do not know what is His truth, and rely only upon your own ideals...feelings and/or emotions....whatever makes you "feel" good. But that does not make what you believe or feel, true.
God's holy Word states very clearly that >>>IF<<<you love Him, >>>THEN<<< you will keep His commandments...ALL TEN OF THEM, and not excluding the 4th one...keeping the seventh day (Saturday) holy unto God...abiding in His rest. It all begins here.
God states:
"For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee...THOU HATEST ALL WORKERS OF INIQUITY." (Psalms 5:4-5).
"But the wicked and him that loveth violence HIS SOUL HATETH. (Psalms 11:5).
"The face of the LORD is against them that do evil..." (Psalms 34:16).
The face of the Lord isn't against the evil that one does, it is against the one that does the evil. So, when you hear that saying, "God does not love the sin but He loves the sinner," it is a lie...God hates both the wicked and their sins.
>>>IF<<< you read the Bible and BELIEVE God's word...>>>THEN<<<you will KNOW His heart and His desires for your life, and your understanding of His truth is CONTINGENT upon you READING and KNOWING His truth...otherwise, you don't...know Him or love Him. God says: "Anyone who says they KNOW Me and keepeth not My commandments is a liar and the truth is not in them."
"IF ye keep my commandments, YE SHALL ABIDE IN MY LOVE;" (John 15:10).
"IF a man love me, he will keep my words: AND MY FATHER WILL LOVE HIM." (John 14:23).
"He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: And he that loveth me SHALL BE LOVED OF MY FATHER..." (John 14:21).
Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life...and first of all one must receive Him as their LORD and Savior...then you are "saved" IF you received Him with a pure heart...THEN...after a long process of trials and tests (purification), a time comes when you are born-again, (changed into the character of Christ)...you work out your salvation with fear and trembling...and look forward to BECOMING an adopted son of God...it is a process...and it isn't easy...the way is narrow, and few there be that find it. So, this is the only way you have the power...is through the Holy Spirit, by faith in Jesus Christ, to keep the commandments of God...and if you do not keep the commandments of God, and you are sinning, you can be certain that God does not love you, nor your sin...and no matter what you may have been told...if it is anything other than this, it is not the truth.
God's love is unconditional but you have to have faith in Christ.
Well...that would make it conditional then.
You are correct though, about having to have faith in Christ. Having faith in Christ means much more than just mere words...like someone just proclaiming to "believe" in Christ...even Satan believes in Christ...and Satan, I assure you, knows every word of the Bible...there is something much more to "faith" as it were, than just one announcing that they "believe"...much, much more. God said, "Faith without works is dead."..."That it isn't the "hearer" of the word that is justified, but the "doer" of the word who is justified."
True faith means complete trust in...complete trust means total submission....yeilding your entire being...your entire will to God...meaning you put everything, you totally yield...your mind, your will and your emotions under submission to God and live in His will for your life instead...forsaking your fleshly desires...your lusts...and overcoming your carnal/sinful nature by the power of the Holy Spirit...and again, this takes us back to the beginning...only one who has, with a pure heart, received Jesus into their heart, and is filled with the Holy Spirit, and has "begun" their "process" of working out their salvation with fear and trembling is on the true path towards an eternal life with God...in heaven.
God's love is, most certainly, conditional. It is written. But again, IF you do not read the Bible...considering IT to be the Holy Word of God, then you do not KNOW what His desires and His promises are...you do not KNOW Him if you do not keep His commandments...you do not LOVE Him if you do not keep His commandments...and you cannot keep His commandments if you are breaking them...that is sin...sin is defined as this: Transgression of the Law...and God HATES sin, and the wicked one who comitts it. It is written...
"For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee...THOU HATEST ALL WORKERS OF INIQUITY." (Psalms 5:4-5).
In Christ's love...in His truth,
Verna.
Last edited by Verna Perry; 05-15-2010 at 04:54 AM..
God's Love is unconditional. He loves us whether we are saints or sinners... the key is to love Him in return.
Quote:
The existence of hell seems to indicate quite clearly that God hates some of us and that that hate negates unconditional love by setting a condition that if we do not do exactly as commanded, that love is withdrawn. Even if there is no hell, any king of eternal punishment goes against unconditional love.
Hell is not a permanent place or condition... it is created by men's souls being out of harmony with the will of our Heavenly Father... which is to Love. Hell is a place of darkness and mental torment rather than light and love and peace and joy. If a person, who becomes a spirit upon death, finds their first place of abode in Hell... there is a way to get out... it is by seeking forgiveness and Love from our Heavenly Father... this is when you know He loves us unconditionally.
Quote:
Some think that when we sin, we sin against God as well as the victim here on earth. Unconditional love should always forgive regardless of the sin as far as God would be concerned. Conditional love would say that the sinner must repent. The problem is the unrepentant sinner.
If you have a child and your child goes astray, do you not love him unconditionally? Your love doesn't stop because he did something wrong or bad... you try to help him get back on the right track. And this is so with our Heavenly Father... He's always there for us, but we have to be willing to ask for His help... He doesn't impose His will on us. So therefore, He is different than you or I would be with our children... as we want them to follow our rules and we make sure they're doing it while they are living under our roof... and when they don't follow what we require of them, then what happens? They are temporarily punished in some way... they are restricted from doing this, that or the other until they have paid the penalty for their misbehavior... same thing here applies with our Heavenly Father... let's just say this, when people go to Hell, they are grounded until they see the error of their ways and change themselves for the better... and this just involves going to our Heavenly Father and asking for forgiveness. It can't be any easier and simpler than that.
Quote:
When meeting God for judgment, if the sinner cannot see why he should repent or if he feels that whatever issue at hand is not a sin, does God’s unconditional love apply or is it cast aside somehow so that God can have the option of punishment?
Our judgment is an ongoing daily occurrence... we will not meet our Heavenly Father for a "day of judgment"... if someone feels that what they did isn't a sin, then maybe it's not... one way to recognize sin is to listen to your conscience... if you do something and you immediately suffer for it, then that was probably a sin.
Quote:
This may never happen as God is said to have omnipotent persuasive powers but of this I am not sure and you may want to correct me on this because God, it seems, could not convince Satan to do His bidding.
This you should know...a man's will is stronger than our Heavenly Father's will for him... so if a man has made up his mind about something and he allows his free will to rule supreme in his life... our Heavenly Father doesn't arbitrarily step on his toes. And by the way, there was no Satan... this account is merely symbolic of the power of man's free will.
Quote:
Is God’s love then unconditional and no hell is required because we are all forgiven thanks to that love? Or Is God’s love conditional and there is a hell for those who do not do as commanded and repent? Regards, DL
We are forgiven when we ask for it... but it takes an action on our part to accomplish this by going to our Father... forgiveness just doesn't fall out of the sky like raindrops... but it is there for us, if and when, we seek for it.
I find it hard to fathom that god hates anyone, especially given the free will we have. I know god loves me unconditionally and I certainly don't need anyone else to validate that for me. I can't stand judgemental religious people who speak as if they were made the authority to speak for god while cherry picking their own ideology from scripture. I don't buy it. When I see a sunset, or I'm by the ocean, or in the mountains I feel closer to god than I ever would in church.
As I.
You are not the usual believer. This is good.
I take it then that that would mean that the God you know never punishes, right?
According to Gods' Word, which is where I find my answers concerning spiritual/eternal things...Him being my authoratative Source...
God's love IS, in fact, conditional. His blessings upon your life are contingent upon your obedience to His commandments.
If you do not read the Bible...then you do not know what is His truth, and rely only upon your own ideals...feelings and/or emotions....whatever makes you "feel" good. But that does not make what you believe or feel, true.
God's holy Word states very clearly that >>>IF<<<you love Him, >>>THEN<<< you will keep His commandments...ALL TEN OF THEM, and not excluding the 4th one...keeping the seventh day (Saturday) holy unto God...abiding in His rest. It all begins here.
God states:
"For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee...THOU HATEST ALL WORKERS OF INIQUITY." (Psalms 5:4-5).
"But the wicked and him that loveth violence HIS SOUL HATETH. (Psalms 11:5).
"The face of the LORD is against them that do evil..." (Psalms 34:16).
The face of the Lord isn't against the evil that one does, it is against the one that does the evil. So, when you hear that saying, "God does not love the sin but He loves the sinner," it is a lie...God hates both the wicked and their sins.
>>>IF<<< you read the Bible and BELIEVE God's word...>>>THEN<<<you will KNOW His heart and His desires for your life, and your understanding of His truth is CONTINGENT upon you READING and KNOWING His truth...otherwise, you don't...know Him or love Him. God says: "Anyone who says they KNOW Me and keepeth not My commandments is a liar and the truth is not in them."
"IF ye keep my commandments, YE SHALL ABIDE IN MY LOVE;" (John 15:10).
"IF a man love me, he will keep my words: AND MY FATHER WILL LOVE HIM." (John 14:23).
"He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: And he that loveth me SHALL BE LOVED OF MY FATHER..." (John 14:21).
Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life...and first of all one must receive Him as their LORD and Savior...then you are "saved" IF you received Him with a pure heart...THEN...after a long process of trials and tests (purification), a time comes when you are born-again, (changed into the character of Christ)...you work out your salvation with fear and trembling...and look forward to BECOMING an adopted son of God...it is a process...and it isn't easy...the way is narrow, and few there be that find it. So, this is the only way you have the power...is through the Holy Spirit, by faith in Jesus Christ, to keep the commandments of God...and if you do not keep the commandments of God, and you are sinning, you can be certain that God does not love you, nor your sin...and no matter what you may have been told...if it is anything other than this, it is not the truth.
In Christ's Love, His truth,
Verna.
I do happen to know the Bible but before throwing contradictory quotes at each other, I want to know if we can reason together.
Do you believe in the fantasy parts of the Bible?
Talking animals, staffs that turn into snakes, water walkers and all the other instances where nature and physics is breached.
Can and does your God break the rules of nature and physics that you and I must live under?
Regards
DL
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