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When someone who has wronged you chooses self-justification and never owns up to it, reconciliation never happens. Even when the one who was wronged seeks to forgive.
That is just the difference between forgiveness and trust. One does not imply the other. I can forgive people who have wronged me or mine without much difficulty, but I cannot trust them again unless they own their role in things and change their ways and work with me to rebuild that ruined trust.
Sometimes the way forgiveness is presented, you are expected to act like the offense never happened, or you haven't truly forgiven. That is true in the sense that it should not "keep you up nights" so to speak. It should not be a source of toxic emotions or something. But it is NOT true in the sense that someone has shown themselves to be a bad actor and could harm you again, so you don't act is if THAT's not the case.
So to pick an extreme example, a woman can forgive her abusive partner and treat him with empathy and compassion but that in NO way means she takes him back or puts herself in a position for further abuse.
“One should forgive, under any injury,” says the Mahabharata. “It hath been said that the continuation of the species is due to man’s being forgiving. Forgiveness is holiness; by forgiveness the universe is held together. Forgiveness is the might of the mighty; forgiveness is sacrifice; forgiveness is quiet of mind. Forgiveness and gentleness are the qualities of the Self-possessed. They represent eternal virtue.”
“One should forgive, under any injury,” says the Mahabharata. “It hath been said that the continuation of the species is due to man’s being forgiving. Forgiveness is holiness; by forgiveness the universe is held together. Forgiveness is the might of the mighty; forgiveness is sacrifice; forgiveness is quiet of mind. Forgiveness and gentleness are the qualities of the Self-possessed. They represent eternal virtue.”
Correct, and none of that remotely implies that forgiveness is automatic / unearned trust or lack of appropriate and healthy interpersonal boundaries. Part of having "quietness of mind" is having personal safety from those who have demonstrated themselves to be hostile.
Correct, and none of that remotely implies that forgiveness is automatic / unearned trust or lack of appropriate and healthy interpersonal boundaries. Part of having "quietness of mind" is having personal safety from those who have demonstrated themselves to be hostile.
Forgiveness is for the self, not for the other. It is a way to get past the past, give up grievances, and lead your own life in the present with neither love nor hate. Safety is an emotion, an experience, and both is under one’s own control. Why attribute the power to the other? That is a mistake that hurts only the self.
Forgiveness is for the self, not for the other. It is a way to get past the past, give up grievances, and lead your own life in the present with neither love nor hate. Safety is an emotion, an experience, and both is under one’s own control. Why attribute the power to the other? That is a mistake that hurts only the self.
I do not attribute it to the other, but to the person wronged. Each person is responsible to use their own agency to avoid putting themselves I unsafe situations.
Safety is not just an emotion that one gins up, or a subjective experience that one seeks. It is a function of defined and enforced interpersonal boundaries. You are not safe if you're tottering at the edge of a 1,000 ft cliff while inebriated. You are safer if sober. You are safer still a good distance from the cliff edge. None of his has to do with how one feels about it, but with how one acts and the circumstances one accepts / puts oneself in.
I can fully and completely forgive someone while recognizing that they are a bad actor and avoiding further injury. That is the only point. I can choose the experiences and relationships I have and the trust I afford others, completely independent of my state of (un)forgiveness.
This distinction is critical because way too many people confuse forgiving an offender with trusting them. Forgiveness is on the person offended, trust must be re-earned by the offender and even then they are not entitled to anything BUT forgiveness. An abusive spouse is not entitled to be taken back. An abusive boss is not entitled to the employee re-applying for their job. An abusive politician is not entitled to re-election. Etc.
I do not attribute it to the other, but to the person wronged. Each person is responsible to use their own agency to avoid putting themselves I unsafe situations.
Safety is not just an emotion that one gins up, or a subjective experience that one seeks. It is a function of defined and enforced interpersonal boundaries. You are not safe if you're tottering at the edge of a 1,000 ft cliff while inebriated. You are safer if sober. You are safer still a good distance from the cliff edge. None of his has to do with how one feels about it, but with how one acts and the circumstances one accepts / puts oneself in.
I can fully and completely forgive someone while recognizing that they are a bad actor and avoiding further injury. That is the only point. I can choose the experiences and relationships I have and the trust I afford others, completely independent of my state of (un)forgiveness.
This distinction is critical because way too many people confuse forgiving an offender with trusting them. Forgiveness is on the person offended, trust must be re-earned by the offender and even then they are not entitled to anything BUT forgiveness. An abusive spouse is not entitled to be taken back. An abusive boss is not entitled to the employee re-applying for their job. An abusive politician is not entitled to re-election. Etc.
So you are the third party in judgement then? That is even more of a burden than carrying grievances into the future, forever. The wronged person is the only one with agency to deal with grievance, and if they decide forgive, forget, and to move on, more power to them, more happiness.
Feeling safe or unsafe is in the mind, it is not an objective factor. People with mental disturbances can feel unsafe for no reason, and it is real and manifests in their body. Safety is a function of mental health.
Forgiveness relieves one self, it has no effect on the other. It is not a gift to the other but oneself.
Correct, and none of that remotely implies that forgiveness is automatic / unearned trust or lack of appropriate and healthy interpersonal boundaries. Part of having "quietness of mind" is having personal safety from those who have demonstrated themselves to be hostile.
When I forgive, I forgive and want the person to trust that I have forgiven them, and not abuse that by playing some game where at some point they have earned forgiveness, which can be used as the old carrot on a stick where it is never fully realized and always in the realm of doubt. That would be abusing forgiveness in the same manner as someone who has been forgiven for verbal or physical abuse and continues in that, because in both instances it is about domineering control over another. And no one wants to live under that. Sometimes you must forgive and move on to be free.
Some view themselves as never needing to be forgiven for anything, and justify themselves in every instance. Never knowing both sides of forgiveness and the love that flows from that.
There is also the parable of the man who owed a great debt he could not pay and pleaded for forgiveness, and it was forgiven. Then he went to someone who owed him a small amount and showed no mercy. And when the one who was owed the large amount found out, it did not end well for that man.
Sometimes it is hard to get away from abusers that you have a history with, because you feel deep down they really do care about you. When I grew up I hung around a lot of older kids, who verbally abused me and spent a lot of time beating on me, saying they were just trying to make me tough. And I did like them because there were many good and fun times, so I endured it all. Then when worlds collided, I brought a friend from school where I was respected, to one of my party spots. I was 13 years old and a big muscular 21 year old, who was at least 6'2' and 225lbs who I had partied with for several years, started in on me and treating me like a punk in front of my friend from school. That was the only time in my life I swung at someone with malice, and I went at him full on, and he went into defensive mode and backed down. I don't condone that, but it was my turning point and I pretty much primarily just hung around with my friends from school from that point on.
So, getting out of abusive relationships, you have to deal with a certain loss all around. And I think that is the hard part for many who need to be set free of an abusive relationship.
It is true, that forgiving someone for something does something for the forgiver.
A number of times I have personally watched people (both adults and students) LITERALLY BEG for forgiveness.
Think, also, of the catholic who goes to confession to BEG god for forgiveness, and part of that process is, literally, on their knees.
Wow, what was their crime? I hope you did?
The OP question is what does forgiveness look like? The given then is it is a subjective experience. We cannot experience what the other feels. But we know and experience freedom, when we decide to forgive, we know that. We give the gift of freedom to ourself.
As for confession, it is a religious procedure, performance of a ritual surrendering to God. If you have faith in that then it is the same thing, essentially you are forgiving yourself through this ritual of confession, getting rid of your guilt. The priest is only the medium, in the name of God he confers forgiveness. This process however has a tinge of fear, of sin and punishment.
It is true, that forgiving someone for something does something for the forgiver.
A number of times I have personally watched people (both adults and students) LITERALLY BEG for forgiveness.
Think, also, of the catholic who goes to confession to BEG god for forgiveness, and part of that process is, literally, on their knees.
You make an excellent point that forgiveness can both be given and received.
I personally view forgiveness as something to be earned. Letting go of anger and resentment towards someone for your own sake is well-advised whenever possible, but I distinguish that from forgiveness as a recognition of atonement and, when advisable, granting of absolution.
Forgiveness as atonement would be accepting someone’s apology for doing you wrong but remaining wary (and mindful in the future) of avoiding future scenarios where the problem could repeat itself (for example, a friend asks to borrow money and promises to pay it back within a week but ends up taking three months to satisfy the debt).
Forgiveness as absolution is cleaning the slate completely because the person has gone above and beyond the rectify their wrongs (for example, the friend described above not only pays you back in full but makes a matching contribution in your name to a charitable organization meaningful to you).
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