Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Not quite. Birth is also to reap the benefits of having been very good, to enjoy the fruits of good actions. If one stops there then one has wasted the opportunity to know the self and realized her identity with God. This is the only purpose of human birth- knowledge of self. That is the liberation, the ticket out of the cycle of samsara.
karma is not "reward and punishment."
cause and effect is not "reward and punishment"
karma is not "reward and punishment."
cause and effect is not "reward and punishment"
big difference.
and you know this because? and why do you make up words that were never said? karma phala literally means fruits of action. please don’t post any links.
action and result are the vedic terms, it is always about action. buddhist may be different.
I think in Buddhism it's not so much about specific words, but about interpretation...especially since not a single lay person I know understands Pali, which is what the Buddhist scriptures were written in.
In my view...and perhaps this is what you are saying...kamma is simply cause and effect.
yes i agree
the system of reincarnation as a process for growth and development, is not owned by any holy book or any language or any religious path or tradition. it is a process. though different "religions" may have different names or words or ways of describing it.
the process though is that the circumstances of each next incarnation are determined successively based on previous lives and what is needed or lacking for soul to move on and advance in development.
I think in Buddhism it's not so much about specific words, but about interpretation...especially since not a single lay person I know understands Pali, which is what the Buddhist scriptures were written in.
pali is a local dialect and has possibly vanished. i wish i could see what instructions went with it. cause and effect kind of meld in vedic thought, both present at the same time. sort of like the potential for both in the same. fire in the wood sort of thing.
but karma is always about action and result of action.
pali is a local dialect and has possibly vanished. i wish i could see what instructions went with it. cause and effect kind of meld in vedic thought, both present at the same time. sort of like the potential for both in the same. fire in the wood sort of thing.
but karma is always about action and result of action.
neither "cause and affect" or "action and result" which really are the same
neither of those are "reward and punishment"
even at a mundane secular level,
cause and effect are not about reward and punishment
it's more like school or the workplace, learning, progression until competency is demonstrated and only then does advancement occur. third grade is not a reward for passing second grade. it is just more of the same, different tasks.
to equate "a good life" with "reward" for doing good deeds, when taken to its conclusion would mean those with the easiest lives are the most advanced. which is not the case at all. some of the most advanced souls completing their most advanced final lessons, do so in the most dire of life conditions.
the ease of one's life in no way indicates level of soul advancement. even at a secular level that is seen. The "nicest people" do not have the easiest lives. and those with the "easiest lives" (money! fame! riches! cars! real estate! happy family life!) are often well criminals in one way or another. there simply is not a correlation. that is seen even at the secular level.
it's not "giving to get" a reward or to avoid punishment. that framework is a very rudimentary (simple? not mature? crude?) system for some in their daily life. but not at the level of soul progression. with the school comparison, i'd put it at preschool level or thereabouts. certainly a person can believe whatever they want. if reward and punishment floats the boat, then hey go for it.
Given that many people believe that we are all born as sinners, what does forgiveness look like and how can anyone tell they have been forgiven by God? How can anyone else know that forgiveness has been achieved?
Is it just an absence of conscience or guilty feeling? Is it just being a Christian will absolve all your sins if you say you are 'sorry?.
It really makes a mockery of calling anyone a sinner if you cannot find out in some way that they are now NOT a sinner but forgiven.
Again, some people think we are all sinners all the time and cannot be anything else, so how can we be forgiven at all, ever? It seems there is a little explanation which is needed.
If there was no sin or sinners, there would be no need for forgiveness.
even at a mundane secular level,
cause and effect are not about reward and punishment
it's more like school or the workplace, learning, progression until competency is demonstrated and only then does advancement occur. third grade is not a reward for passing second grade. it is just more of the same, different tasks.
to equate "a good life" with "reward" for doing good deeds, when taken to its conclusion would mean those with the easiest lives are the most advanced. which is not the case at all. some of the most advanced souls completing their most advanced final lessons, do so in the most dire of life conditions.
the ease of one's life in no way indicates level of soul advancement. even at a secular level that is seen. The "nicest people" do not have the easiest lives. and those with the "easiest lives" (money! fame! riches! cars! real estate! happy family life!) are often well criminals in one way or another. there simply is not a correlation. that is seen even at the secular level.
it's not giving to get a reward or to avoid punishment. that framework is at the level of daily life. not at the level of soul progression.
since you are quoting me i assume you are responding to my words. i never said reward and punishment there is no authority to do such a thing. they are your words and i don’t know where you are getting them from because you never quote your source other than some links.
karma in vedic vocabulary and thought is action and karma phala is literally fruit of action. karma also signifies rituals which are performed for communal welfare and also personal. but it denotes mostly action, duty. gita is all about karma and fruit if karma. nobody is handing out any rewards. it is the wheel dharma and as it turns all actions bear fruit. the idea is when the life form dies it’s actions and result go with it and fructify in the next birth. if you want to call a good life experience is it’s reward go ahead but that is not how it is viewed. it is what it has earned.
if you respond to my post please quote it, don’t make up stuff that was not said.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
