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There is another point. It's not related to this subject but since I read the dialogue here...
Some people have a very easy life, rather happy life, simple and uncomplicated life. Like a friend of mine, for instance. This happens sometimes so they do not advance. Spiritually I mean. They advance just a tiny bit and that's all. No difficulties, no tragedies, no illnesses, no money problems, no relationships problems, nothing really significant. How can one advance in these conditions and why bother to improve?
There is a prayer that a saint (female, in Ancient India, I forgot her name) used a lot. She prayed like this:"Please God, bless me with constant difficulties so that I will never be forgetful of Thee!"
Wow, talk about strength, devotion and toughness...
There is another point. It's not related to this subject but since I read the dialogue here...
Some people have a very easy life, rather happy life, simple and uncomplicated life. Like a friend of mine, for instance. This happens sometimes so they do not advance. Spiritually I mean. They advance just a tiny bit and that's all. No difficulties, no tragedies, no illnesses, no money problems, no relationships problems, nothing really significant. How can one advance in these conditions and why bother to improve?
There is a prayer that a saint (female, in Ancient India, I forgot her name) used a lot. She prayed like this:"Please God, bless me with constant difficulties so that I will never be forgetful of Thee!"
Wow, talk about strength, devotion and toughness...
...
Sorry for the interruption, please continue.
yes exactly. I was thinking the very same thing. you took the words off the tip of my keyboard
it is why material existence, the physical plane altogether is such a stagnant dense existence. Because there are so many distractions and diversions that pull a person away from anything related to spiritual development at all. it's like what they say in recovery, nobody living a carefree happy easy life wakes up one day and says hey, things are going great, think i'll start attending a 12-step program. no, they go because things are falling apart. Same with spiritual development. we don't grow and stretch and develop to even begin mining our potential until we are forced into it. And that too is why people, after they are many years into recovery are heard to say that it was the best thing that ever happened to them. No, not the tools of recovery. But the mess that forced them into recovery in the first place.
Not quite. Birth is also to reap the benefits of having been very good, to enjoy the fruits of good actions. If one stops there then one has wasted the opportunity to know the self and realized her identity with God. This is the only purpose of human birth- knowledge of self. That is the liberation, the ticket out of the cycle of samsara.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel
karma is not "reward and punishment."
cause and effect is not "reward and punishment"
big difference.
the view expressed above as "reap the benefits of having been very good" "enjoy the fruits of good actions"
describes a system or process that rewards (or bestows or awards or correlates) "being good" with "benefits"
that is a system of duality. being "good" or ________. "benefits" or __________. "enjoy" or __________. "good actions" or ___________.
the neutral language of cause and effect, or action and outcome, do not have duality judgments built in.
the above verbiage does have duality judgments built in.
my interest is the process and concepts, not what it is called in this or that language, book, text, religion or translation. so i am using generic language, not that which is specific to any particular path.
There is another point. It's not related to this subject but since I read the dialogue here...
Some people have a very easy life, rather happy life, simple and uncomplicated life. Like a friend of mine, for instance. This happens sometimes so they do not advance. Spiritually I mean. They advance just a tiny bit and that's all. No difficulties, no tragedies, no illnesses, no money problems, no relationships problems, nothing really significant. How can one advance in these conditions and why bother to improve?
There is a prayer that a saint (female, in Ancient India, I forgot her name) used a lot. She prayed like this:"Please God, bless me with constant difficulties so that I will never be forgetful of Thee!"
Wow, talk about strength, devotion and toughness...
...
Sorry for the interruption, please continue.
Perhaps your friend has already evolved, already enlightened, and she has made her life uncomplicated and simple purposefully, and is full of kindness and compassion, considering she has good relationships. Why does she need to do anything if she is happy? Happiness is our true nature. And she has found it, her true self. Rejoice!
What would it look if she were to "advance"?
No. My friend (a man) doesn't believe in God. He never thinks of God, never. Advance = to improve, get rid of your bad habits, wishes and desires, likes and dislikes. Basically become like a saint. It takes millions of reincarnations.
the view expressed above as "reap the benefits of having been very good" "enjoy the fruits of good actions"
describes a system or process that rewards (or bestows or awards or correlates) "being good" with "benefits"
that is a system of duality. being "good" or ________. "benefits" or __________. "enjoy" or __________. "good actions" or ___________.
cause and effect, or action and outcome do not have duality judgments built in.
the above verbiage does have duality judgments built in.
No it does not, it is your interpretation of it. There is no Customer Service up there, checking your balance sheet and handing out rewards and punishment. All that we experience we bring it on ourselves. Our mind creates our own world, our own hell and heaven. We all have individual minds, and, get this, minds really have no existence, and yet it has a powerful effect on our life, how we act, how we think, what we make of our life.
All there is is Consciousness/awareness. It is when we know and experience as truth that The Awareness/Consciousness within and without is who we are, not this body/mind that that is caught in cycle of samsara, we attain liberation, right here, right now. It is an evolution and it is an attitude.
Karma and reincarnation is whole another concept but it is not what you think it is, at least not that anything I recognize. Again rewards and punishments are what you give to yourself. Nobody does that to you.
We enjoy fruits of good action right now. Kindness and compassion makes you feel good, it is reward in itself. And it draws people to you because you are likable and in return thay want to be good to you. See how that works?
If all you see are faults and enmity, well that is how your life will be as well.
Simplicity in life sets you free. Goodness is its own reward.
*I am using you in a general terms, not you personally
No. My friend (a man) doesn't believe in God. He never thinks of God, never.
If he has attained liberation he does not need to believe in God. God is within him, always is. No it does not millions of reincarnations, only one birth, to find the god within you. Maybe you need to find another path. Ask your firend,
No it does not millions of reincarnations, only one birth, to find the god within you. Maybe you need to find another path. Ask your firend,
I said it takes millions of reincarnations to become a saint. I was referring to that. My friend tried to flirt with me (he was a little drunk) at his own wedding, OK? It's a friend of my husband actually. He's not an advanced being for Christ's sake. You got to be kidding me...
I'm not going to continue this discussion.
But I forgive you, ha ha. To be in tone with this thread.
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