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I'd kind of like that, to be honest. But I see the benefit to mistakes, struggles, and errors, as a way of learning and growing. I think we'd be less balanced and complete without those. And they should make the positives and joys stronger, by way of contrast.
Even with all the perfection in the universe, there's no denying that nature has downsides: tornadoes, hurricanes, lightning, floods, famines, sickness, explosion of stars, etc. But there's nothing wrong with mirroring nature with its "flaws". We're in good company. Look at the "big picture", rather than the tiny picture on one's little life and little problems.
Last edited by Thoreau424; 04-08-2024 at 09:54 AM..
When it comes to the God of Christianity, He wants the universe and earth to be without evil. Now for those outside Christianity, they wouldn't agree with Yahweh's view of what is good and evil. However ultimately, we all have a sense of good and evil. So this is a spiritual question. If given the opportunity, would you want to live in a world where evil didn't exist at all? This is purely a question of desire and not about punishment. I just want to know how many here would like a world without evil? (No matter how big the evil is or how small, but it's entire eradication) Be as honest as you can. (For instance, perhaps in this perfect world, there might be zero lying. There won't be a need for lying, but would you like to live in a world without lying?)
I also have a poll with this thread.
Well I didn't respond to the survey because there's not enough description to give and up/down response.
Whose definition of "perfect" is involved? Logically, only a given person's definition of "perfect" would be their choice for an afterlife / perfect world. Since everyone has different strengths / weaknesses / needs, then either each person would need their own "perfect world", or everyone would have to be remade to be compatible with some singular, predefined perfect world.
Although not explicitly stated, Christianity pretty much goes with the latter notion. The Christian afterlife is god's notion of perfection and everyone who lives there agrees totally with god, because whatever used to attract / repel / annoy / please them has somehow been "fixed" to match god's views.
As to living in a world where evil does not exist, I'd suggest that since evil (and, yes, good) are just human concepts that everyone frames a bit differently, and evil is not a thing-in-itself but a state of basically harming others for personal gain -- we already live in a world where evil does not exist. You can't produce evil for me to examine. It's just a concept.
What people usually mean by eradicating evil, is eradicating human suffering in all its forms. And since all moral conflict and suffering is a product of competing concerns in each person's mind, the only way to eliminate it would be to give everyone a "reboot" with new software, where everything is always in perfect balance and unvarying in desires and priorities from person to person. Otherwise you eventually have conflicts, up to and including wars and criminality. It's inherent in being human. I'm an introvert. I like peace and quiet. That's a problem if you're an extroverted party animal, living next to me. Hilarity ensues.
Well I didn't respond to the survey because there's not enough description to give and up/down response.
Whose definition of "perfect" is involved? Logically, only a given person's definition of "perfect" would be their choice for an afterlife / perfect world. Since everyone has different strengths / weaknesses / needs, then either each person would need their own "perfect world", or everyone would have to be remade to be compatible with some singular, predefined perfect world.
Although not explicitly stated, Christianity pretty much goes with the latter notion. The Christian afterlife is god's notion of perfection and everyone who lives there agrees totally with god, because whatever used to attract / repel / annoy / please them has somehow been "fixed" to match god's views.
As to living in a world where evil does not exist, I'd suggest that since evil (and, yes, good) are just human concepts that everyone frames a bit differently, and evil is not a thing-in-itself but a state of basically harming others for personal gain -- we already live in a world where evil does not exist. You can't produce evil for me to examine. It's just a concept.
What people usually mean by eradicating evil, is eradicating human suffering in all its forms. And since all moral conflict and suffering is a product of competing concerns in each person's mind, the only way to eliminate it would be to give everyone a "reboot" with new software, where everything is always in perfect balance and unvarying in desires and priorities from person to person. Otherwise you eventually have conflicts, up to and including wars and criminality. It's inherent in being human. I'm an introvert. I like peace and quiet. That's a problem if you're an extroverted party animal, living next to me. Hilarity ensues.
I think it would also make sense for a person to be remade. Our version of a perfect world would be immature due to the fact we don't know enough. If there was a way to make everything "perfect" for everyone, it would require radical knowledge of everyone's personality and qualities.
I think it would also make sense for a person to be remade. Our version of a perfect world would be immature due to the fact we don't know enough. If there was a way to make everything "perfect" for everyone, it would require radical knowledge of everyone's personality and qualities.
Sheesh.. Only god is perfect. We already had an angel that wanted to be god like. How did that go?
So for that one person in the survey who doesn't want to live in a perfect world...you have so many choices of where you could live that would be far from perfect. What's stopping you? It's not overly difficult to become an ex-past (I've done it).
I think it would also make sense for a person to be remade. Our version of a perfect world would be immature due to the fact we don't know enough. If there was a way to make everything "perfect" for everyone, it would require radical knowledge of everyone's personality and qualities.
The problem with this is that people are looking to be in an afterlife as themselves, not as some remanufactured avatar of themselves. The further we have to be from our humanity (warts and all) the less of an incentive the afterlife is.
I think that most believers think heaven is a place where they -- not someone else -- will live their life as it is but with "every tear wiped away". If they are not going to be recognizably themselves, maybe not even recognizably human ... it seems a little bit like a bait-and-switch.
One could argue that it doesn't matter so long as you're happy and maybe it doesn't. But I don't think most folks would be at ease with being altered to fit heaven; they've been thinking that heaven is sort of earth, altered to fit them. And yes I see some problems with that, but there are also problems with heaven being an incentive for deferred closure, understanding, justice in this life ... life finally made "right" ... and it's something they wouldn't actually enjoy as themselves. It's kind of strange to think about.
The problem with this is that people are looking to be in an afterlife as themselves, not as some remanufactured avatar of themselves. The further we have to be from our humanity (warts and all) the less of an incentive the afterlife is.
I think that most believers think heaven is a place where they -- not someone else -- will live their life as it is but with "every tear wiped away". If they are not going to be recognizably themselves, maybe not even recognizably human ... it seems a little bit like a bait-and-switch.
One could argue that it doesn't matter so long as you're happy and maybe it doesn't. But I don't think most folks would be at ease with being altered to fit heaven; they've been thinking that heaven is sort of earth, altered to fit them. And yes I see some problems with that, but there are also problems with heaven being an incentive for deferred closure, understanding, justice in this life ... life finally made "right" ... and it's something they wouldn't actually enjoy as themselves. It's kind of strange to think about.
I believe you are overthinking it, Mordant. Picture instead, the removal of all your worst moments (the ones you probably regret) leaving only the neutral or positive ones that make you the best of what you are. That is the kind of "alteration" that is involved, I believe.
Now, would this perfect world also include me not being cold all the time, my husband lowering the thermostat and then claiming its my fault for eating a "calorie deficit diet" by being a vegetarian somehow causing me to be cold....then when I give him a look he compliments me for being "classy by staying fit".....its torturous.
In all seriousness...it would be nice for "temperature" to not exist...
you mean the World to come where all the bad people , basically all humans, are exterminated.
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